Reflections on a long flight...

[fibio]

I used to hate the thought of giving these animals the same rights as american citizens. After reflecting on the many possible (and probable) abuses, now I'm not so sure.

I have say you're wise for coming to this conclution. If someone wanted to destroy democracy taking away annyone's human rights is a good place to start.

[Mecron]

I am not so sure that sitting there like a frackin idiot trying to set fire to your ginch in some sort of completely non viable way to blow up an airplane, isn't instant psyche evaluation time. I mean, there is a reason why the world is not overrun by shoe bombers either.

What bothers me is the insane level of power a useless idiot like that is given. One idiot setting fire to his sack distorts the lives of how many MILLIONS of people and whatever the dollar value is on the slow downs incurred. Even barring the fantasy world where his underwear actually hurt anyone, his act achieved significant returns comepletely due to our almost equally crazy reaction.


Sometimes the Red Skull doesn't have to march into Times Square at the head of a stormtrooper column....sometimes he just has to convince you that that only way for you to win is to be just like him.

[Sevain]

Some days I wonder if the people who have vested interest in selling people security are in league with the people who make money out of telling people things...

[fibio]

One of the main reasons that the media really shouldn't be owned by people with political connections.

[fiendishrabbit]

One of the main reasons that the media really shouldn't be owned by people with political connections.

The problem is. If they aren't, they will be.
Media is power and influence and in the end "independent" media is pretty much a sham, sooner or later a political party will be in de facto control.

Or to say it with one of the more immortal phrases in western society, "Man is by nature a political animal".

[Mecron]

and that is why laws USED to exist to keep one person or organization from owning too many media outlets.

[aidan]

and that is why laws USED to exist to keep one person or organization from owning too many media outlets.

Mec's posts are usually insightful. Unfortunately I can't read this one due to Comcast-NBC/Universal's new Interweb Protection Censomatic, conveniently added to all Comcast accounts.

But I'm sure it's great!

[Mecron]

they had to add that "in order to be more competitive."

[fiendishrabbit]

they had to add that "in order to be more competitive."

No no. They had to add that "in order to maintain their competitiveness in todays economic/political climate".

Always remember that whenever you're implementing a potentially unpopular measure it's the fault of india/china/indonesia.
Or terrorists.

Bonus points if you can work in "preserve [nationality: If NULL Then nationality = "American"] values/jobs"

[zugins]

Best place to see how these sort of measures work is Israel it lived and lives under a constant threat of a direct terrorist attack pretty much everywhere.

Most terrorists that try to blow up pizzerias, supermarkets, buses IF they are stopped are stopped by civilians who shoot them with the personal handguns till they are dead.. or by security guards that shops employ.

There is a good video of a buldozer attack notice who opens fire on the bastard first
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYJHKyIUeNk

[Mecron]

By most of the worlds standards that is a hellish existence and we are very sorry for you and the political decisions all around that result in that existence.

[warlord sam]

I'm a late-comer to this thread, but I for one trust the average person in uniform and suspect that a lot of people feel the same. I would submit that uniformed military personal being used in public safety roles within America is more of a political move than anything.

It instills confidence in the Americans living in a post-9/11 world, when we started to question what our nation was doing to protect us. The reality of the matter is no matter how effective any changes made were, there are still millions of people that need that visible reassurance.

I don't see a massive conspiracy in this.

[Mecron]

history books are wonderful things...and not very conspiritorial at all.

[warlord sam]

If you want me to see some parallel between what is happening in modern-day America and in some historical situation, you'll have to be a bit more direct when you suggest it.

Did said historical situation involve a military that was 100% made up of volunteers? Members of a liberal nation with a representative form of government? Everything about our cultural values rejects the idea that our military could be used to oppress us. Small elements? Yes, sure. But as a whole, I reject the notion that the people who serve in the American military could oppress their fellow citizens.

[fiendishrabbit]

Did said historical situation involve a military that was 100% made up of volunteers? Members of a liberal nation with a representative form of government? Everything about our cultural values rejects the idea that our military could be used to oppress us. Small elements? Yes, sure. But as a whole, I reject the notion that the people who serve in the American military could oppress their fellow citizens.

While you can't get anyone to do anything with the "proper" training/conditioning you can certainly get your average human to do horrific things.
Step one is to create a We/Them divide. "We're military, they're dirty commie-sympathising hippies". "We're patriotic americans/chinese/germans, they're terrorists".

After that you just need the "right" conditioning and to frame any problem "the right way".

100% voluntary also means that 100% can either identify themselves with the current military agenda, or view that they have no choice but to comply with the current military agenda (although this is an oversimplification, I know).
There are a whole slew of pro-contra arguments with professional armies vs conscription, but "voluntary militaries are less likely to use force against their own people" is not one of the ones that stand up to scrutiny.