Specific Zuul Questions

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silvaril
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I like Wraiths... ;p

Post by silvaril » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:10 pm

Heya

The only thing I would add is that in the early game the Wraiths are good for cleaning up small colonies and infecting larger ones.

I tend to use these initially as bore ship escorts as they can be quite good in combat, while being able to hit enemy colonies effectively.
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Re: Specific Zuul Questions

Post by Shatner » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:13 pm

Mecron wrote:Breezing through this topic the 2 things that come to mind are 1) the HCL thing is less about the alpha and more about the fact Zuul have turreted heavy beams and hence they can make HCL's much more effective while manouvering than the other races...and 2) the most devestating Zuul tactic I have seen so far is the Zuul steamroller...consisting of heavy strike ships, slave disks and a scattering of biomes. Arrive in system, kill defenders launch slave disks, strip planet of pop, colonize with one biome, dump slaves, refuel, rinse, repeat. 2 or 3 large fleets functioning like this become a blitzkreig the likes of which Guderian could only dream of :twisted:


Thanks Mecron for the HCL tid-bit; I never would have thought of that. As part of my continuing efforts to get into the Zuul mindset, I intentionally went for Mega-Strip Mining early (especially for me) and have been using it liberally to convert conquered worlds into money/ship makers and rapidly spawning invasion fleets as my fronts push ever outwards. It's impressive to behold; the trick is to not concern yourself with the state of those planets 20 to 30 turns later. In that way I have assembled my own steamroller fleets and things are going very well; the main slow-down was that I didn't get fusion, and by extension Radiant Bores, until much later than I probably should have.


I have a couple more questions for you all; and thanks so much for the quick and very insightful remarks:

1) When (and how) does the boost from dumping ore kick in? I know that when a mining ship deposits resources on a friendly planet, only a quarter of those resources are actually added to the planet's total and that the rest are added as a one-time overharvest bonus. However, I thought I would capitalize on this IO bonus by building a sizable portion of an invasion fleet the turn I received those resources but when I went to build, it didn't seem like I was enjoying that much of a boost. According to the wiki, those four Zuul mining ships were adding 800 permanent resources total to my planet and adding the equivalent to overharvesting 2,400 resources for that turn. Was I just expecting too much? Did the boost come the turn before, when I gave the "dump ore" command? Does the mining windfall convert into the same amount of IO as normal overharvesting, taking into account the inherent bonus or efficiency the Zuul enjoy when overharvesting (so, would I get the same industrial output boost getting a 500 overharvest from mining versus actually overharvesting 500 resources from a planet)?


2) Zuul stealth... Aside from the whole "we are a furry, homicidal locust swarm" theme (where the zuul show up in crushing numbers, stomp the defenders, claim the planet and chew it down to the bedrock producing additional invasion swarms), the Zuul are also supposed to be sneaking, opportunistic, raiding bastards who slink in and out largely unexpected. The sneaky-Zuul motif is shown in that their drives have a very short cool-down to retreat, their better than average sensor range and their very good chances of getting cloaking. However, I found that having to have the large, slow and terribly conspicuous rip bore precede me really cuts down on my capacity for raiding and sneakery. How do the Zuul raid when they first need a 1.54LY/turn space-auger arrive on the scene? Does jamming and/or stealth armor help? Actually...


3) How does stealth armor work, anyway? The wiki (which I intend to update soon) is rather vague on the subject but it looks like stealth armor reduces the distance on the strategic map by which your ships are detected... like part of what a jamming ship does, but without the fleet-composition blocking. While I could see how it might be handy for a Liir or a Morrigi sensor ship to sit in the stellar void unobserved and ignored while it monitors nearby enemy planets, that doesn't really seem possible for the Zuul whose FTL travel can't stop midway and whose STL travel is painfully slow; to the point that the steamroller fleet they're scouting for might get there first. Does stealth armor offer any bonus once you enter tactical combat? Can a rip bore get stealth armor?

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silvaril
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*chuckle*

Post by silvaril » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:20 pm

Heya

For the Ore dumping, start building the same turn you are dumping Ore.
Also useful if you find yourself scuttling ships at some point.


For faster boring, get better bore drives... ;)


Stealth armour may not assist your Bore, but the ( several turns later ) following slaving fleet will likely benefit from it...

Wraiths, who will never get cloaking, are able to benefit from Stealth armour, useful for raiding.
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Re: Specific Zuul Questions

Post by Shatner » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:35 pm

silvaril wrote:Heya

For the Ore dumping, start building the same turn you are dumping Ore.
Also useful if you find yourself scuttling ships at some point.


Will the planet's IO change to reflect this, so you will know just how much you can build that turn, or do you have to guess? Does it do the same IO estimation for scuttling? Finally, how much of a benefit do you actually get from scuttling ships (the wiki is not very forthcoming on that point)?

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Re: Specific Zuul Questions

Post by Mecron » Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:58 pm

The problem most people have is that they can't seem to decouple the bore fleet from the offensive one...when you hit a planet in force bring along an extra couple bore/tanker combos as well. Your job over the years is to riddle the enemy border with node lines that they will eventually forget about. (best in the cruiser era when the bore lines last longer) Also those dead worlds your enemy mines and forgets about? Super connectors! :twisted:

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*shrug*

Post by silvaril » Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:27 am

Heya

Shatner wrote:Will the planet's IO change to reflect this, so you will know just how much you can build that turn, or do you have to guess? Does it do the same IO estimation for scuttling?

The IO will not change to reflect the effective over-harvest bonus of either dumped Ore or scuttled ships. However, you also do not have to guess so much as run the calculation for over harvest... ;)
( ie: if you can be bothered )

I just build ships... :D
( failing all else, colony ships... )

Shatner wrote:Finally, how much of a benefit do you actually get from scuttling ships (the wiki is not very forthcoming on that point)?

The reason the Wiki is not very forthcoming is because the benefit you gain is a percentage of the IO cost to build the ships being scuttled...

( hint: scuttling all those DE freighters after replacing them all with CR freighters == lotsa overharvest benefit... :D )
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Re: Specific Zuul Questions

Post by zanzibar196 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:08 am

Mecron wrote:The problem most people have is that they can't seem to decouple the bore fleet from the offensive one...when you hit a planet in force bring along an extra couple bore/tanker combos as well. Your job over the years is to riddle the enemy border with node lines that they will eventually forget about. (best in the cruiser era when the bore lines last longer) Also those dead worlds your enemy mines and forgets about? Super connectors! :twisted:


This is why I play hiver... I got a gate at all those dead worlds that I've mined... ;)
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Re: Specific Zuul Questions

Post by Shatner » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:13 pm

Erinys wrote:
Remnant wrote:* Is gravity in any way connected with psi, because the node-tunnels, being made by gravity, seem to attract psi energy.


Nodespace doesn't attract psi energy, it amplifies psi energy, and those with psi senses can perceive the psi qualities of Nodespace itself, and of consciousness dwelling within it.
--Arinn


Given the above, what do the Zuul experience in Nodespace? Can the Zuul read/interrogate/dominate the Spectres, since the latter are supposedly sentient and the former are good at doing bad things to the sentient? Humans have node madness and they rank pretty low on the psy-scale, so the Zuul who 1) are VERY psychic and 2) likely the cause of the Spectres' agitation would get all the more feedback from Nodespace, especially when the nodespace-natives are around...

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Re: Specific Zuul Questions

Post by Erinys » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:22 pm

Shatner wrote:]Given the above, what do the Zuul experience in Nodespace?


The Zuul experience their journeys through Nodespace as a delicious and deeply comforting sense of burrowing into live flesh. It recalls the pleasure of the maternal pouch and the joy of infant feeding. When they travel through Nodespace, Zuul males are able to meditate peacefully for long periods of time and Zuul females can briefly sleep.

Can the Zuul read/interrogate/dominate the Spectres, since the latter are supposedly sentient and the former are good at doing bad things to the sentient?


The Spectres are not "supposedly" sentient, and the Zuul are not able to interrogate them. There are limits to Zuul telepathy, and the consciousness of a Spectre is beyond their comprehension.

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Re: Specific Zuul Questions

Post by AlanF5 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:50 pm

Wait, the Spectres are sentient? I thought they were like... white blood cells or something. Simple.
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Re: Specific Zuul Questions

Post by Golden Yak » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:08 pm

Sure, but only when compared to the universe. They're like white blood cell equivalents. There's possibly some sort of 'even my autonomous functions are beyond your most brilliant minds' thing going on.
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Re: Specific Zuul Questions

Post by Shatner » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:26 pm

To clarify about the Spectres, I assumed they were sentient from some half-remembered forum post from way-back-when. Don't take that assertion as anything other than very flimsy.


Erinys wrote:The Zuul experience their journeys through Nodespace as a delicious and deeply comforting sense of burrowing into live flesh. It recalls the pleasure of the maternal pouch and the joy of infant feeding. When they travel through Nodespace, Zuul males are able to meditate peacefully for long periods of time and Zuul females can briefly sleep.
--Arinn


What is it about the Zuul psyche that makes Nodespace so comforting, in contrast to to the Liir (unsettling) and humanity (dementing) response?

Do the Zuul have a name for the Spectres and do they, as one of only two node-traveling species, have an official protocol in dealing with them? It would seem like the Zuul, who favor ballistic over energy weapons and who spend the longest time traveling in nodespace (their drives are always a little bit slower than the closest human-equivalent, hence longer travel times) would have the most to say about them.

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Re: Specific Zuul Questions

Post by Golden Yak » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:06 pm

Shatner wrote:What is it about the Zuul psyche that makes Nodespace so comforting, in contrast to to the Liir (unsettling) and humanity (dementing) response?


Personally, I always figured the Zuul would liken it to inflicting pain on a slave creature. Part of their desire for domination. The Zuul are using Nodespace in a different way than humans - they're drilling holes into something that doesn't naturally have holes in it. That probably hurts, and for the Zuul, pain in others is a sign that you have them in your power. Zuul Node travel is like torturing the universe, which would probably be appealing for a Zuul.
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Re: Specific Zuul Questions

Post by Erinys » Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:01 pm

Shatner wrote:What is it about the Zuul psyche that makes Nodespace so comforting, in contrast to to the Liir (unsettling) and humanity (dementing) response?


Your summary adjectives need a bit of work in this context.

Zuul find the sensation of traveling through Nodespace comforting because it recalls infancy. A Zuuling in its mother's pouch is safe, warm, protected, and surrounded by living flesh. Little Zuulings often burrow through their food at the early stages as well. While traveling through Nodespace, the Zuul feel as they are burrowing through an unspeakably huge living thing. The response that their rip-bores cause is analogous to pain, which does not trouble them.

As for the Liir and Human reactions--they are actually based on a very similar response, which is much much more direct and immediate in Liir than in Humans. Some Humans appear "demented" when they manifest Aortomania because they feel intuitively that there is a presence in Nodespace which they can almost see/hear. A Liir has no doubt--they receive that data full-blast on all channels. It is the Song of the universe--overpowering, incandescent, beautiful. One should only perceive this Song at the moments of conception and death.

Do the Zuul have a name for the Spectres and do they, as one of only two node-traveling species, have an official protocol in dealing with them?


There is no official protocol. As with any other potentially deadly threat, Zuul flee if they cannot fight, and fight in preference to any other possibility. As for the name--Zuul call the Spectres call them Brai, or Raks Guha. Brai, literally--the spirit of a dead female. Raks Guha, literally--"demons of the womb".

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Re: Specific Zuul Questions

Post by TriniWarlord » Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:47 pm

As a Zuul player I havn't heard any1 talking about boosting research, especially for Zuul who suck at reasearch. I personally, especially in my new Zuul game I recently started, I 'v boosting reasearch from the begining of the game an hav yet 2 experience a single accident :thumbsup: I found the sweet spot with boosting reasearch to be about 1/3 of the booster bar or less an it doesn't seem to hav any accidents (thats not to say its impossible I am most likely jus lucky)

The benefits aren't small either... it can take a 20+ turn project an turn it into a 12-14 turn project or less if ur lucky. & it also helps ur economy since the boost points are worth double the normal amt, so ur saving on the overall cost 2 :thumbsup:

Also with regard to overharvesting I'v found that fully overharvesting ur worlds from the get go can gve a very nice boost 8) but u hav to monitor this as the initial boost can give between 30,000 - 40,000 extra income. Now take that an multiply it by 4-5 worlds n u get an easy 120,000 - 200,000 income boost which is closing in on ur base homeworld income :wink: an gets better with more colonies. After a while tho u need to watch it cause this drops to about 20,000 or less which isn't worth the recources u consume so u can then drop the slider back to the base.

Hope this helps u :thumbsup: !!
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