Ballistic Weapon Technologies

Research and Development in the SotS universe.
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Mecron
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Post by Mecron » Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:37 pm

In russia, siege driver bounces YOU off!

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cathexis
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Post by cathexis » Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:45 pm

Squippy wrote:Do we have the exact damage values for ballistic weaps?

Edit: I see on the wiki the damage for Small ballistics is "35".... do we have figures for the medium and large? I'd guesstimate by eye that the mediums are about 50.
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Sigh nm I found em 'all.

Gauss cannon are 35, Mass Drivers do 150, and Heavy Drivers do 350. Small weapons in medium turrets and so forth add an extra barrel or two, so large turreted gauss cannon does up to 35 x 3 damage depending on how many rounds bounce off their armor.
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Post by Darkchampion » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:09 am

Grifman wrote:
Penance wrote::P point defense works against like, 10 missiles or so, but agaisnt a 36-missile swarm, you still take massive damage.

Altough, to be quite hoenst, i dont have much experience with point defense as a mission section. (or command of bigger ships).

like Mecron said 'if the enemy ship can kill a crapload of missiles, just send two craploads worth.'


:D


But two can play that game. You send a 36 missile swarm and I'll build a point defense fleet that can take it out. Every action has a counter.


If you counter tons of missiles with tons of point defense you have most likely just negated a large amount of your offensive capability. If your enemy goes missile crazy, the act of decentralizing your firepower will swiftly kick his butt. OH NOES your 36 missiles just killed 2 DEs! Now the other 18 are REAL mad, and their own UVs/Missiles are at point blank range (missiles are practically useless. at very close range pd can kill just about any number when they are in their post launch dumbfire period)

Or you could just always get deflectors and laugh.

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Post by flipmode » Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:39 pm

And an opponent that relies too heavily on missiles can also have the tactical flaw of losing a lot of firepower at close and medium range.

In planetary defence long range is already at least partially covered by the satellites, so a close range fleet can complement it nicely, but a missile fleet is just more of the same.

For me I always have a good amount of PD in a balanced fleet to give it good cover in planetary attacks, which is the only true point of a major fleet for me.

What I'm trying to say is that I value weapons not just for the damage they cause, but for the amount it will cost my opponent to change his fleet to counter them. As all fleets face missiles in significant numbers at one point, you have to really concentrate your firepower on missiles before your opponent will be forced into spending resources/using turret space to counter them.
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Post by Mecron » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:18 pm

excellent point! :wink:

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Post by ZedF » Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:26 pm

flipmode wrote:And an opponent that relies too heavily on missiles can also have the tactical flaw of losing a lot of firepower at close and medium range.

Conversely, if you know you will have a maneuverability advantage over your opponent, and you have access to enough point-defense to counter enemy planetary missles, a heavily missle-oriented offense often results in free kills. You may not kill your enemy very quickly, but you can do so very efficiently in terms of how much damage you receive.

You must have a mobiility advantage for this to work. And it's not very useful on defense, where killing enemy fleets before they snack on your planets is important.

Of course, the best answer is to mix things up, so your enemy will not know what to defend with. The burden of defending against everything is a lot more onerous than that of coming up with more than one flavour of attack fleet.

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Post by SOCR » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:14 am

usually when I use missile-swarm ships, they're always cruisers (no dreads, what a waste of space) and are always backed up by an emitter-boat cruiser, so anyone who gets within effective missile range gets a big electron snack. Also effective against the destroyer swarms inside missile range, but my armada-command dreads usually have at least one burster.

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Post by Mecron » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:35 am

just flew into a AI dread-based burster storm...owie!

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Post by Nekokaburi » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:26 am

Ever wonder what effect mass drivers would have on the liir inside their water-filled ships? Let me say that there's a reason pet shops have signs saying "do not tap the glass" on the fish tanks.


Based on personal experiences so far, ballistic weapons are entertaining at times, particularly for the 'back to basics' idea of warfare when your opponent becomes too heavily dependent on higher technologies (energy absorbers, and I believe meson shields have no effect on more mundane weapons, correct?). It kind of reminds me of when the dreaded StormTroopers, terror of the galaxy's downtrodden masses, were defeated by teddy bears with stones and pointy sticks.

But so far they seem underpowered against anything big and heavy. Basically I put them out front (with AI FC command sections) when I see lots of little guys, but they're relegated to support when the heavy hitters come to play.

[edit]I take it back, mass drivers are pretty damn good, even against armored targets, if you use upgraded AP rounds.[/edit]

Oh, and the little side discussion about missiles... I find that missiles only really work well on offense once PDS becomes standard. As it has been said, their slow refire time and travel time make them a bad first choice when you're on defense. On offense, however, it's a good way to keep your CnC out of the fight without having to really take it out of the fight. My offensive armada CnC is always a missile boat (more recently with AM torps on the front end) so it can sit way back and harass the enemy while my real killers move in and do the dirty work. I generally strip it of PDS though, as nearly every other ship I make has some. I'd rather not have it ripped apart without incident by a PDS intensive enemy while the rest of my fleet is engaged.
It's great for disrupting an enemy with lots of pds, too. If they have gauss or laser pds, you can mess them up a bit by targetting something in the middle rear of their fleet. You know the missiles aren't likely to make it there anyway, but if you get lucky they'll soften themselves up for you. I read that strategy on here somewhere a week ago, and it's worked beautifully.


PDS heavy fleets can't be undervalued either, btw. One salvo of AM torps from my BB Barrage dreads (10 torps for hivers) utterly demolishes any inadequately covered enemy cruiser (and cripples enemy dreads) I've fired it at so far, even when they have gauss pds+AI or phaser PDS. Usually there's even a torpedo or three left over to sail on past the floating debris and either smash the planet, or if I get really lucky hit the guy behind him.
The same has been attempted on me, with missiles, torps, and corrosive missiles all coming at once, but I keep a screen of DEs in front of my dreads, armed with laser or phaser (when I get it) PDS and little or nothing gets through. At worst, a torpedo sometimes gets through, but it's weakened to the point that even my DEs shrug off two or three.

Sure I lose on offensive power if the enemy has no missiles or torps of any kind, or goes with mainly other weapon classes, but better safe than sorry, eh? AM torps can be scary. (Wiped out 24 terran cruisers with one salvo each before they could even close in on me, because they brought only one CnC to the fight, and I destroyed that at range first. Warping in two at a time means my Dreads have time to reload their torps. :P)


Oh, and Mecron, imagine an armada CnC and two combat dreads protected by a dozen PDS cruisers all with AI command sections, a mix of PDS and lasers on the little turrets, and a burster on their big AM engines. Now imagine having to attack that fleet with Liir destroyers backed by a handful of Liir cruisers. Luckily I was on the other side, behind the bursters. The Liir AI in that game has resorted to fleets composed entirely (or nearly so) of dreadnoughts.

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Re: Ballistic Weapon Technologies

Post by Monkeyking » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:23 am

I think that liquid would absorb the kinetic energy better than oxygen. Thought sound does sound travel faster underwater so it would probably make a hell of a racket especially if hit a certain frequency but I doubt it.
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Re: Ballistic Weapon Technologies

Post by Mecron » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:08 pm

When you say sounds travels faster in water your are pointing out that water does NOT absorb kinetic energy as well as air and in fact is a more powerful and efficient medium to conduct shockwaves.

Man in sub close to depth charge? Banged around but fine if sub doesnt crack. At same distance but swimming? SQUISH!

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Re: Ballistic Weapon Technologies

Post by Profound_Darkness » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:11 pm

Yet another thing I learned from Mythbusters. Probably learned it earlier but nothing like a nice multimedia presentation followed by a really big boom to explain a thing. Basically even if you were at a safe distance (for in air explosion) if you had that same distance, you and explosion in the water, you would probably drown in your own blood, at the least.
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Vemarkis
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Re: Ballistic Weapon Technologies

Post by Vemarkis » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:21 am

I must say, "Shotgun Driver" is a winwin tech. While I usually focus on using plasma/fusion/antimatter cannons on my Tarka ships, I find that one shotgun driver mount on the behind of my cruisers really helps when both sides are rather even(especially since I always engage at point-blank ranges to minimize damage losses due to poor accuracy). The knockback really helps here. Also, I don't mind the fact when I encounter the swarm, or lots of drones, that thing handles them just fine. Also, they really help against the Liir i've found, their drives enable them to evade my cannon shots easily, but they haven't found a way to avoid the brunt of my shotgun driver salvos yet :D.

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Re: Ballistic Weapon Technologies

Post by DervMan » Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:43 pm

Shotguns, eh... Interesting, as I have never used this weapon. I don't remember getting it for the longest time, either. :roll:
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Re: Ballistic Weapon Technologies

Post by The_Pastmaster » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:17 pm

Speaking of which, wouldn't Bursters be a friendly-fire weapon since it's basically a shrapnel bomb? Just asking since I haven't tried them
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