Best Mainline Weapons

Galactic diplomacy with extreme prejudice.
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Coyote27
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Re: Best Mainline Weapons

Post by Coyote27 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:34 pm

Mightypeon wrote:Texan? The Rodina is suprised that Texans think like Russians ;)


Considering Putin's love of running around bare-chested in the woods with a rifle/crossbow, it doesn't surprise me in the least :lol:
"In the absence of any orders, go find something and kill it." -Erwin Rommel

Mightypeon
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Re: Best Mainline Weapons

Post by Mightypeon » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:51 pm

Hmm, as far as acceptance of violence, or things like vigiliantism go, Russia and the USA are imho much closer than to each other then lets say the USA and most of Western Europe.

To get back to the topic: I recently experimented a bit with using both Dumb fire Racks and Stormers in an extensive matter.
Compared to the common APMD, they have a couple of shortcomings:
-One tends to prefer using Strafe sections in order to get enough mediums. This may be just me, but I find aiming with Strafe sections in cruiser on cruiser fights to be rather hard (I dont have any issues when it comes to aiming with blazers).
-Stormers are countered by heavier armour than Magno, if someone has Quark resonaters, your stormers become very downgraded.
-Dumbfirerockets never dealt more damage than straight APMDs, they also made the ships much less survivable.

Redeyes
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Re: Best Mainline Weapons

Post by Redeyes » Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:41 pm

I have totally fallen in love with Morrigi Barrage/Assault ships.

As a mainstay ship they pack 5 heavy beam weapons and 4 torpedoes.
Heavy beams are the epitome of alpha striking, if the connect with a target it is pretty much dead or heavily crippled. When you get to cutting beams you are tied for the strongest attack in the game as far as I can tell, and you bring 5 perfect accuracy weapons.

Photonic torpedoes have insane accuracy and the high end upgrades (mesonic, kelvinic) have half the damage of rail gun, but with almost perfect accuracy and they're still effective at close range... Seeing how you get get 4 torpedo slots is there ever a real reason to replace the ship?

You also a second large mounts when you hit antimatter engines, which isn't really needed, Morrigi have the best turning and tactical speed with all engines.
Heavy beams also have the by far the highest health bonus. You'll effectively have more health than a armor cruiser!

Mightypeon
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Re: Best Mainline Weapons

Post by Mightypeon » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:38 pm

I would not claim that Cutting Beams have perfect accuracy, nor do Torps. However, Assault Barrage cruiser usually make up a majority of a Morrgi force.
However, Shield War with Pulsed Grav Beams (as a durable brawler), Assault Drone, assault Shuttle Carrier and Assault Blazer can also be usefull, provided Cash is not your primary constraint.
Alas, between relativly slow Morri pop growth, and the fact that you can get about 3 Human HH-Armour APMD cruisers for the price of a Morri Assault Blazer kinda points to the disadvantadge they can have in practise.

I also do not see direct fire torps as anywhere near perfect aim ;)

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fiendishrabbit
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Re: Best Mainline Weapons

Post by fiendishrabbit » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:05 pm

I've tried direct fire torpedoes with Morrigi, but I've always found the seeking torpedoes to be more useful (although kelvinic torpedoes are nice).
It's just a better match for the morrigis situation.
For one thing they can utilize their superior speed to run away and fire torpedoes at the same time.
It also means that they're a credible threat at all ranges.
Of the various direct fire torpedoes only Mesonic are much of a threat at long range.
You can't trust the Liir. Never trust someone that smiles all the time.

Redeyes
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Re: Best Mainline Weapons

Post by Redeyes » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:40 am

I was more thinking that this kind of assault vessel would be a close-ranger brawler. Direct fire torpedoes make sense in that case.
The ship has close toperfect accuracy at close range, it just need to be able to face its target to hit.
I don't know if 50 turn speed is enough to do it, but it's certainly better than what the other races get.

I really like the idea of trying out the seeking torpedoes and simply, might do it next time. I was happy enough with the high durability and close-range striking power of the ship.
I realize that mass-drivers might be quite a pain with this setup, though. But they always are.

Ugh, I didn't really look at the ship's cost before.
What would be a cheap equivalent for the Morrigi?
The same setup I guess.

It isn't a surprise that I found the assault/barrage ship to be great at its cost...
That, and me often playing quick combat, the ship excelled at it.
6 to take out a [spoiler]Puppetmaster[/spoiler] without a loss? Pretty cool.

The Morrigi assault/war cruiser seems like another good outfit with great frontal coverage.

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Re: Best Mainline Weapons

Post by NJM » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:05 pm

Yep, quality comes at a premium :)

I use assault/war cruisers mixed in with the more expensive assault/barrage due to their significant cost savings if I have good beams. Their main drawback of course is that they can be fragile in comparison.

Mightypeon
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Re: Best Mainline Weapons

Post by Mightypeon » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:02 pm

Well, my last Morris just got quark resonators (after several games with Polly less Humans ;) ), makes them Crows much less fidgety.

I would also like to bring your attention towards Morri Impactor section which have THREE Impactors.
And look cool.

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fiendishrabbit
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Re: Best Mainline Weapons

Post by fiendishrabbit » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:13 am

I really don't like the Morrigi war section.
It's structurally weak (the weakest of all war sections, it's even weaker than the Tarka one!) and the very design of Morrig ships means that it's exposed (since there is no command section to shield it).

In addition it's simply not that great in terms of offense.
You're giving up 3 light and 4 medium mounts in exchange for 2 large. That's a pretty minimal gain compared to the Tarka (-1 light, plus 3 medium and plus 1 large) or Liir (minus 2 medium, plus 1 large. In addition the light mounts are much better placed) war cruisers.

The Assault/Armor cruiser is IMHO a much better deal (BB/Armor if you're going for cheapo second line cruisers). It's sturdier, almost as powerful in terms of guns (unless you overload it with PD instead of using those extra mounts for offense), faster and more maneuverable.
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MS_Cowboy
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Re: Best Mainline Weapons

Post by MS_Cowboy » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am

I always loved the Morrigi BB/Armor for basic cheap warships. They look good. It's not like they don't pack a punch, either. It's nice to be able to get 2 large mounts on a basic cruiser without using a HCL or torpedo command.
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fiendishrabbit
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Re: Best Mainline Weapons

Post by fiendishrabbit » Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:05 am

MS_Cowboy wrote:I always loved the Morrigi BB/Armor for basic cheap warships. They look good. It's not like they don't pack a punch, either. It's nice to be able to get 2 large mounts on a basic cruiser without using a HCL or torpedo command.


The problem with the BB/Armor (and in fact the morrigi Armor/War line in its entirety) is that it's not that much more powerful than a human BB/Armor cruiser, but it has a lot higher investment cost (initial price, the maintenance cost is obviously the same).
In a sheer battle for attrition the humans will win out.
In this case the forward firepower of the War section (and Morrigi in general) is a weakness since you can't utilize your top speed fully if you have to have your nose aimed at the enemy. The potential 4 large mounts of the Morrigi would have been much more tactically viable if they had been mounted in a rear or broadside configuration (since large mounts tend to have better range)

The Assault/barrage (or Assault/blazer) is much more suited to the morrigi limitations. It's even MORE expensive than the BB/Armor, sure. But it features unique advantages (heavy firepower, the highest alpha strike in the game and much better long range capability) that a Morrigi can use his speed to leverage. It's pretty obvious. If you can choose the range, where to fight and how often to clash it makes sense that you should make the most of it and either cripple the opponent at a distance where he is significantly weaker than you (only impactors and Liir Assault/Barrage boats can match Morrigi at range), or make the most out of the initial clash (high alpha).

The other solution is to run around the enemy entirely and instead focus on soft targets (guerilla warfare), and in that case the Armor section has an advantage over the War section in that it features better PD coverage (potentially) and a full 15 points more speed.
You can't trust the Liir. Never trust someone that smiles all the time.

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Re: Best Mainline Weapons

Post by ZedF » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:21 pm

All this assumes you have whatever arbitrary weapons you want, rabbit. ;) There have been times when my best choice for Morrigi was shield/war cruisers because I needed those large turret mounts.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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fiendishrabbit
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Re: Best Mainline Weapons

Post by fiendishrabbit » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:35 pm

ZedF wrote:All this assumes you have whatever arbitrary weapons you want, rabbit. ;) There have been times when my best choice for Morrigi was shield/war cruisers because I needed those large turret mounts.


No plan survives the point of contact. If you never get your hands on a single torpedo weapon...well, as a morrigi you've been pretty heavily sadorandomized and you'll need to improvise. Then you might field a shielded/war cruiser in cases where you can't maneuver freely (planetary defense for example) or where you face someone that's as maneuverable as you are (other morrigi or Zuul) and if you haven't been able to find a single good medium mount. Mostly because the morrigi shield section is good and compensates well for the war sections deficiencies.

Still. It means "no torpedoes" + "agile enemy or lack of decent medium weapon"+"You managed to net shield technology".
That's the sadorandomizing equivalent of being sent to the Blue Oyster Bar.
You can't trust the Liir. Never trust someone that smiles all the time.

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Re: Best Mainline Weapons

Post by ZedF » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:51 pm

Nah, it meant I was taking over for an AI faction, my economy was limited, and I could not afford the time or money to research whatever I wanted or build more than smallish handfuls of ships. Turreted beams were my best available option both for DPS and bombardment, especially given that I could not really afford to build specialized bombardment ships.

Really, though, any time your economy is constrained but you have invested in a good large mount weapon, war sections become more attractive. Morrigi might find themselves in this position less often than, say, humans, but that doesn't mean it can't happen.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

NJM
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Re: Best Mainline Weapons

Post by NJM » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:13 pm

Yeah, they're most useful when you're in a bind. In the early cruiser era the cost to research mass drivers and the first Zuul Xenotech is dirt cheap, giving you a relatively inexpensive and powerful cruiser. I think the reason I still use them afterwords in conjunction with sturdier classes is because I like the whole "more big guns" premise. :oops:

A BB/War cruiser is also pretty nasty with meson beams. I've had human versions of these and they can almost instapop an armored Tarkan cruiser. Of course, that isn't really a "cheap" alternative.

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