Heavy Anti Matter Cannons vs Beams?

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Zero12345678
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Heavy Anti Matter Cannons vs Beams?

Post by Zero12345678 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:21 am

Can someone tell me the damage of HAMCs? The wiki just says 150-350 but doesn't really give the total damage. I assume the recharge time is 8s as thats the recharge time for planetary bombardment.

How do the heavy cannons stack up against beams? I assume both of them are affected by reflective plating, but are their any other benefits to using one as opposed to the other?

I was going to try to test out the two of them but the game I am playing as the Liir, I only got HAMCs and didnt get positron or meson beams with 90 and 80 percent chances respectively, yet I got AP rounds, bursters, AND stormers. -_-

wow looking at the %s I got most of the low chance (<50%) techs and I am missing lots of the 80+% chance ones.

Mesaia
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Re: Heavy Anti Matter Cannons vs Beams?

Post by Mesaia » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:05 am

HAMC are not beams. The Energy Cannons are the most basic of weapons with the least number of things that will affect them. They deal straight damage to ships, they don't deflect.

Reflective Coating only affects Beamers. Not Large Beams or Heavy Beams.

The wiki lists the HAMC as a 8s recharge.

The HAMC fires 3 bolts. The dmg listed on the wiki is on a per bolt basis because not every bolt might hit.

The HAMC does 150 dmg per bolt at point blank range, 350 dmg per bolt at effective range and 200 per bolt at long range.

Aside from differences in damage, the Heavy Energy Cannon type differs from the Large Beam type in three major ways.

First, at equivalent tech levels the HEC types has about twice the range of the LB types. The HAMC has a Max range of 1800 vs the Meson beam's Max range of 900.

Second, the HEC types has a cone of fire whereas the LB types are 100% accurate.

Third, HEC types will do different damage at different ranges, the LB types will do the same damage at all ranges.

The info is all in the wiki.

http://sots.rorschach.net/Heavy_Antimatter_Cannon

Warcat
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Re: Heavy Anti Matter Cannons vs Beams?

Post by Warcat » Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:39 am

Seconded.

Just my two cents.
It's not so easy to compare those two weapon types, because it heavily depends on tactical situation and personal combat behaviour.
For instance, in close combat, even Neutron beams should deliver more damage (considering dps and accuracy) than an AMHC. On the other hand beams aren't suited for standoff combat due to their relatively short range.

Zero12345678
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Re: Heavy Anti Matter Cannons vs Beams?

Post by Zero12345678 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:40 am

the HAMC only fires 3 shots? i coulda sworn it looked like a couple more.

So reflective coating only works on the red, green, etc lasers? Does it include the phaser version of the laser?

As a side note, what exactly are the colored lasers good for? I have never used lasers except really early game and even then, I never go past green. I usually just head straight to drivers and PD. On dreads and stuff I pretty much only go PD on small slots.

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SpardaSon21
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Re: Heavy Anti Matter Cannons vs Beams?

Post by SpardaSon21 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:52 am

No, phasers count as particle beams. Reflective coating only affects the colored bolt lasers, beamers, and pulsed phasers, but pulsed phasers have such low ricochet chances you might as well not have reflective coatings when facing them. Reflective coating does not affect large mount beams, the fixed beam mount Heavy Combat Lasers, phasers, or phaser PD.

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Space Voyager
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Re: Heavy Anti Matter Cannons vs Beams?

Post by Space Voyager » Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:24 am

SpardaSon21 wrote:No, phasers count as particle beams. Reflective coating only affects the colored bolt lasers, beamers, and pulsed phasers, but pulsed phasers have such low ricochet chances you might as well not have reflective coatings when facing them.

That is exactly why I always pass on putting reflective on high-end designs. Just no use. And a MUCH higher price.
ErinysSolForce Intelligence has great difficulty penetrating Liir society to that depth, for obvious reasons. fibioLack of scuba gear?

Warcat
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Re: Heavy Anti Matter Cannons vs Beams?

Post by Warcat » Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:53 am

Zero12345678 wrote:Does it include the phaser version of the laser?
If you mean beamers (those continuous green/purple lasers), then yes. Reflective and imp. reflective coatings reduce their damage by some % instead of adding chances of bouncing them off. So you won't ever see a beamers bounched off but sometimes you'll notice that some ships need some extra beamer's hits. Phasers count as beams, so reflective coatings are useless. Pulsed Phasers count as laser bolts and have so low ricochet chances that using reflective coatings against them seems useless.

Warcat
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Re: Heavy Anti Matter Cannons vs Beams?

Post by Warcat » Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:59 am

SpardaSon21 wrote:pulsed phasers have such low ricochet chances you might as well not have reflective coatings when facing them.

Quite true. Consider also that during the late game there are many ways of deliver damage, and some lasers can do decent damage. So it could be a viable choice if opponents will go crazy in fielding laser weapons (and you have smoothed ships). Otherwise I feel that money could be best spent elsewhere.

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Space Voyager
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Re: Heavy Anti Matter Cannons vs Beams?

Post by Space Voyager » Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:32 am

From Wiki;
(ref)Increases the cost of a ship section it is added to by +20%.
(imp ref)Increases the cost of a ship section it is added to by +50%.

That is LOADS of dough for nothing. Actually that reminds me... I forgot to take them off my latest DN designs, dammit.
ErinysSolForce Intelligence has great difficulty penetrating Liir society to that depth, for obvious reasons. fibioLack of scuba gear?

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nickersonm
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Re: Heavy Anti Matter Cannons vs Beams?

Post by nickersonm » Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:15 pm

IR can be extremely useful if your opponent is mainly fielding DEs (which presumably use lasers as their main damage dealer, war DEs excepted), or laser-heavy cruisers. IR-coated ships are practically invulnerable to anything lower than x-ray lasers, and take a whole lot of x-ray firepower to be killed.

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fiendishrabbit
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Re: Heavy Anti Matter Cannons vs Beams?

Post by fiendishrabbit » Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:41 am

If you're planning to use drones. Do research Improved Reflective, because PD lasers bounce occasionally (same modifier as X-ray if I remember correctly) and the cost of a PD drone without IR isn't much more than a PD drone without (especially compared to their host vessels).
You can't trust the Liir. Never trust someone that smiles all the time.

Zero12345678
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Re: Heavy Anti Matter Cannons vs Beams?

Post by Zero12345678 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:45 am

wow, I guess i just assumed reflective coating worked against all laser beam type stuff. I guess I can now save myself loads of cash since I won't be getting RC again. >_<

ZedF
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Re: Heavy Anti Matter Cannons vs Beams?

Post by ZedF » Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:05 pm

RC can be useful if you get it early enough. It tends to be less useful later on, as opponents tend to migrate away from laser weapons and toward weapons that are difficult or impossible to deflect.

The conundrum is that RC is not exactly cheap, and only helps versus laser weapons. By the time you can afford to research and implement RC in your fleet, laser weapons may already be on their way out. So as regards to getting RC, I wouldn't say to never get it. But it is very situational.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
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Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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Mecron
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Re: Heavy Anti Matter Cannons vs Beams?

Post by Mecron » Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:04 pm

of course there is nothing more wonderful in the x-ray/pulse phase era than discovering your are up against an opponent who disdains reflec. :lol:

ZedF
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Re: Heavy Anti Matter Cannons vs Beams?

Post by ZedF » Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:08 pm

By then it's not hard to quickly pick up RC should it prove needed. ;)
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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