Bio Weapons

Galactic diplomacy with extreme prejudice.
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ignus
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by ignus » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:09 am

Third option: It didn't happen to you.
That's the correct one. I've had bio-attacks against me since SotS original IIRC, regardless of whether I have been using them myself.

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Barleyman
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by Barleyman » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:18 am

ignus wrote:Third option: It didn't happen to you.
That's the correct one. I've had bio-attacks against me since SotS original IIRC, regardless of whether I have been using them myself.


I wonder.. Bit much of a coincidence here. After playing the game for year'n'half on and off, 1st time I see plague flag on a planet after fleet action is when I decide to try them myself. Of course my last game was with Zuul who are immune, but otherwise many games with tarka, humans, hiver..

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The_Pastmaster
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by The_Pastmaster » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:46 pm

Liir are somewhat bio war happy. Especially when they upgrade to dread tech.
I realize that pulsars are not part of the Canadian military arsenal, but I find that if you shampoo an angry beaver aggressively with "oily hair" shampoo to dry out it's fur and rub it vigorously against a balloon before flinging it at the enemy with a trebuchet, you get a similar effect.

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The Magus
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by The Magus » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:56 pm

From my experience this seems true. Go to war with alot of Liir if you want to see bioweapons, they seem more likely to deploy them than other empires from what I've seen. They've proven yet again to me recently that, unexpected, biowars are still very dangerous even without cloaking or massive space domination.
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Cai Rui smiled thinly. "What amazes me is how quickly the human race could cease to exist, if we were gone."

--The Deacon's Tale

Vicrry
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by Vicrry » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:28 am

Well, I decided to try out bio-warfare for myself. I had a "few" Morrigi dreadnoughts loaded with assimilation plague, and I didn't seem to have any luck with it. About how many assimilation plague missiles do you actually need to hit the planet? I had nine dreadnought's worth hit the planet, it didn't manage to convert, and I didn't see any vaccines in the data correlation screen for the AI in question. The AI in question also surrendered the next turn, so I'll never know if that planet would have eventually turned..

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The_Pastmaster
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by The_Pastmaster » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:59 am

Those whom have been affected by your Assimilation Virus spend a few turns struggling for control over the planet over those whom are not affected. Sometimes it goes quick but other times it goes slow
I realize that pulsars are not part of the Canadian military arsenal, but I find that if you shampoo an angry beaver aggressively with "oily hair" shampoo to dry out it's fur and rub it vigorously against a balloon before flinging it at the enemy with a trebuchet, you get a similar effect.

Eleahen wrote:You are a genius!

Someone said it :twisted:

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Mecron
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by Mecron » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:35 am

Important to realize that bio weapons are the LEAST mathematical weapon system there is in real life :thumbsup:

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Profound_Darkness
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by Profound_Darkness » Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:24 am

I didn't see anyone pick up on this...

Bioweapons of all types appear to be able to spread via ships moving between systems excepting Assimilation. I never saw that spread (been hit with it and moved the ships). I have seen the other ones spread though. Well, ok, I have yet to be hit by Nano Virus so I haven't seen it spread yet.

As to Nano Virus on a fully functioning world. Chances are you are knocking that world out of production for 1 or 2 turns, not much more, unless the virus sticks around for a while. Pretty sure it does though, if other viruses are any indication. I always considered Nano Virus to be the counter to AI running amok in your area...
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derbius
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by derbius » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:11 pm

Apologies if this has already been answered but is there any way to know whether an enemy has researched a vaccine to the bioweapon you have developed? Would it turn up in the Intel Analysis screen? I thought I would try to convert an enemy homeworld and three CRs have been dumping Liir assimilate plague on them for perhaps 6 turns with no visible effect. Is there any way to see whether assimilate is working up to the point that the planet actually shifts allegiance?

Could be it's just not enough of course...

ZedF
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by ZedF » Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:16 pm

I don't know whether vaccines show up in Data Correlation but I wouldn't be surprised if they did not. Data Correlation generally only shows techs you can see in operation, not empire-wide buffs that don't have a weapon or system you can see with your scanners.

So, there's the easy way and the certain way.

The easy way is, if you've been dumping plague for 6 turns and not seeing a noticeable impact, they probably have vaccine. Especially if you've been dumping plague in quantity (like several biowar cruisers at once, or many biowar destroyers at once.)

The certain way is to get a spy ship in their empire and see if he can uncover their tech tree. For this you need spy beams and a repair ship (preferably cloaked.) The repair ship can, as an action, build a spy asteroid, which you can then insert into an enemy system with an asteroid belt. Wait several turns, hope the spy doesn't get caught, and see what he comes up with.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

derbius
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by derbius » Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:45 pm

Spy ship! Good idea - it's time I tried them out. Mind you I might just have been over-ambitious in thinking that a few CRs could infect a homeworld.

ZedF
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by ZedF » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:27 pm

If you're landing 10+ biomissiles per turn, I would expect to see some effect, in the absence of vaccine. You might not take the whole planet over in just a couple turns, but you should see a noticeable pop decrease.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

GoboMan
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by GoboMan » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:32 am

Since the time I discovered bioweapons, I've liked this combo: a StrikeForce CNC leads 5 biowar cruisers to the tactical battle, parking a Refinery and R&S ship at the edge of the system. All ships are wearing Advanced Cloaks. The enemy does not suspect your presence as 20 biomissiles are launched from inside the satellite ring. (It's SO nice when your tech tree gives you all you need!)

In my present game as a Li'ir... I sent in a fleet and conventionally pounded a Human world until the Imperials all lay dead in the dust, then flew off, leaving the world for my clueless AI Li'ir ally to colonize. Actually, I was acting clueless, 'cause soon the surviving civvies proclaimed independence!
Meanwhile, my biowar cloaked fleet was lining up on the Human home world. All I had was the basic Plague, but it worked ... devastatingly. Three billion humans died a turn after my sneak attack. (This game development actually gave me a poor night's sleep, as I wrestled with the impact of murdering 3 billion people. Who says these things are just games? Sometimes they show you what's in your own heart.)

After the attack, I made for my nearest planet to refuel. Then I decided to cut my ally another break and deal with the 70 million civs that went independent on that first planet. So, less than 10 turns after burning the heart out of the Human empire, I showed up for this l'il clean-up job, and -

Planetary missiles launched at me soon after the timer started. They immediately started banging my cloaked fleet. No asteroids to hide in, and my biowar cruisers had little PD. I launched biowar missiles as soon as I was in range. I saw a planetary missile target them and take out one, leaving about 15 to impact the planet (one cruiser had already lost its mission section.) I then circled the wagons and concentrated fire on incoming planetary missiles until the clock expired. I had the indignity of two ships wrecked and then - NO EFFECT from the plague missiles.

So I conclude that after hearing nothing but radio silence from the big die-off at the home world, in 10 turns those 70 million civs somehow researched and built deep scans AND Plague vaccine while dealing with their newly-radioactive planet. Nice trick after the whole empire had somehow overlooked doing that and a major part of the labs were now depopulated. I felt kinda sucker-punched, but no worries - another visit from a conventional fleet turned the remaining planetary surface into obsidian and these remarkably resilient remnants became crispy critters.

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Kimori
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by Kimori » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:52 pm

Planet missiles can launch against cloaked vessels if the defending planet doesn't have any ships stationed. They assume that ANYTHING up there is a hostile vessel and even with cloaking there's a little bit of leakage. Not enough for them to find cloaked ships without deep scan if they've also got their own ships up there but if they KNOW they have no ships they can shoot at even the most minute signal returns without worrying about friendly fire.

Independent worlds will ALWAYS be able to fire at cloaked ships as they have none of their own.
Hostile worlds with no fleet will do the same. And no, it's not Liir-specific. :p

Libelnon
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by Libelnon » Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:26 pm

The Magus wrote:From my experience this seems true. Go to war with alot of Liir if you want to see bioweapons, they seem more likely to deploy them than other empires from what I've seen. They've proven yet again to me recently that, unexpected, biowars are still very dangerous even without cloaking or massive space domination.


Makes sense. The Liir are famed for their bio-technological knowledge.
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I'd make a good spy. I always want to know what everyone else is doing. Being cooped up in an asteroid doesn't sound fun though...

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