Bio Weapons

Galactic diplomacy with extreme prejudice.
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LintEmissary
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by LintEmissary » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:42 pm

Libelnon wrote:
The Magus wrote:From my experience this seems true. Go to war with alot of Liir if you want to see bioweapons, they seem more likely to deploy them than other empires from what I've seen. They've proven yet again to me recently that, unexpected, biowars are still very dangerous even without cloaking or massive space domination.


Makes sense. The Liir are famed for their bio-technological knowledge.


Agreed. I played with 2 Liir and i notice ships named "isolation", which carry retro-plague-loaded bio missiles. They managed to take down the entire planet :oops:
why, then, do you bring war to the liir?

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tremor3258
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by tremor3258 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:53 pm

LintEmissary wrote:Agreed. I played with 2 Liir and i notice ships named "isolation", which carry retro-plague-loaded bio missiles. They managed to take down the entire planet :oops:


Yeah, as a human player, I see a Liir with green sticking out of the hull and I start getting real nervous, real fast. They attract my aggro faster than CnCs.

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fiendishrabbit
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by fiendishrabbit » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:26 am

If you fail to get a vaccine you might be even more screwed.
I might just be imagining things, but it seems that a Liir AI which succeeds with a bioweapon strike is "encouraged" to research and deploy cloaked Bioweapon cruisers.

Even if you do get Deep scan and tunneling sensors they still end up on the wrong side of the planet quite often. "Oh my. There goes that planet".
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ivra
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by ivra » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:15 am

fiendishrabbit wrote:If you fail to get a vaccine you might be even more screwed.
I might just be imagining things, but it seems that a Liir AI which succeeds with a bioweapon strike is "encouraged" to research and deploy cloaked Bioweapon cruisers.

Even if you do get Deep scan and tunneling sensors they still end up on the wrong side of the planet quite often. "Oh my. There goes that planet".

Yupp. Very true, and very painful. And the Liirs are not the only one; Morrigis also like to deploy cloaked bio-CRs. In a recent game I played Hiver against 7 hard random AIs on a sphere map with 350 stars. The Liir and the Morrigi AI players were the first to be exterminated. They just had to go. I had no defenses against their bio-weapons. I had sensor stations and scanner sats everywhere, but still they managed to show up uninvited. The zuul player was almost like an ally. His sporadic attacks with 50 CRs were easy to handle compared to the Liir and Morrigi.
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BlueEagle
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by BlueEagle » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:39 am

I think there is a bug with assimilation plague:

I used to make a lot of plague ships for planetary assault and got mixed results. Sometimes planets didn't convert and I once hit a planet witn 80+ missiles, from waves of ships firing/backlining, and ended up with the planet but very few "survivors" and poor infrastructure, which was exacly what I wanted to avoid (I was thinking they would all convert with little casualties).

Instead, in one of my latest games, I used a single plague DN, playing morrigi, and got excellent results within two turns. It seems that using too many assimilation missiles works in an unintended way.

Also, I should add that if you want to make sure your plague takes full effect, you should land missiles on at least two consecutive turns.

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fiendishrabbit
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by fiendishrabbit » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:59 pm

BlueEagle wrote:I think there is a bug with assimilation plague:

I used to make a lot of plague ships for planetary assault and got mixed results. Sometimes planets didn't convert and I once hit a planet witn 80+ missiles, from waves of ships firing/backlining, and ended up with the planet but very few "survivors" and poor infrastructure, which was exacly what I wanted to avoid (I was thinking they would all convert with little casualties).


Are you sure you didn't hit it with different weapons as well?
A problem with overkill is that even secondary armaments (such as a pair of auxiliary missile launchers or something) might cause pretty severe casualties.
In any case, I've never seen anything that required more than a two dread two turn bombardment. Not even a homeworld.

That two turn bombardment though seems to be quite important, regardless of how many missiles or how large the population is.
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by ZedF » Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:10 pm

Assimilation missiles cause civil war between the infected and the uninfected, so infrastructure damage is to be expected.
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BlueEagle
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by BlueEagle » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:05 am

On my latest game I found that Assimilation plague actually does little or no infrastructure damage (maybe I did that damage in combat). What I don't understand is how many missiles you need for optimal results (max 2 turn conversion, least population killed), and I am sure that using too many is bad, from what I have seen.

Also, using different types of missile gives wrong results - for example combining plague with assimilation always results in everyone getting killed (although I suppose that was to be expected for 4+ retro missiles).I would think that the retro/standard plague should aid in the civil war down there, with the assimilated being immune. I wonder how they work in combination - does the last missile override the other types or combine with them in some way ?

I haven't found a full description for assimilation / beast bomb, as well as many other things in the game (for example, research success chances between 50 and 150, and if allocated funds - the research slider- each turn affect the chance etc.).

johndunk
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by johndunk » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:32 am

BlueEagle, this should answer your questions: http://sots.rorschach.net/Category:Bio_Weapons
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BlueEagle
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by BlueEagle » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:33 pm

johndunk wrote:BlueEagle, this should answer your questions: http://sots.rorschach.net/Category:Bio_Weapons


The wiki is great and informative :) , but doesn't fully adress these mechanics.

Zalabim
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by Zalabim » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:47 am

BlueEagle wrote:I would think that the retro/standard plague should aid in the civil war down there, with the assimilated being immune.


I can't help with the specific mechanics, but I will say that you are not immune to your own plagues. You're immune to all plagues of that type if you have the vaccine, but I assume the assimilated colonists do not have the vaccine until they officially join.

In my experience using the assimilation plague, I only needed two CR bio war ships to hit the planet then I can leave and in one or two turns, depending on size, it would turn over to me. That was before I got the other expansions though so with civilians and larger populations possible, it may not work as well. My problem at the time had been that if the planet was too small or too poorly defended my screening ships would wipe it out in the time it took for the bio wars to close, fire, and flee to safety.

BlueEagle
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by BlueEagle » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:08 am

Zalabim wrote:
BlueEagle wrote:I would think that the retro/standard plague should aid in the civil war down there, with the assimilated being immune.


I can't help with the specific mechanics, but I will say that you are not immune to your own plagues. You're immune to all plagues of that type if you have the vaccine, but I assume the assimilated colonists do not have the vaccine until they officially join.

In my experience using the assimilation plague, I only needed two CR bio war ships to hit the planet then I can leave and in one or two turns, depending on size, it would turn over to me. That was before I got the other expansions though so with civilians and larger populations possible, it may not work as well. My problem at the time had been that if the planet was too small or too poorly defended my screening ships would wipe it out in the time it took for the bio wars to close, fire, and flee to safety.


I was playing liir the other day and chose to attack the hiver homeworld, without a clear hope of any kind of success. Nevertheless, I was cheating using the end-turn save all the time.

What happened was that I used three cruisers of assimilation plague on the first attack ( I was running from them all the time, especially afrain of planet missiles , managed to distract their main fleet while my bio cruisers fired their missiles from a side ). I think most of my assimilation missiles made it, perhaps a couple destroyed.

On the following turn I was unable to land any more missiles - they must have made lots of sattelites with point defense, so I instead loaded game and told my fleet to leave. However, I find that on the next turn, the colony assimilates ! So then I turn my fleet around, to keep the colony alive. Good thing that the gate falls when a colony is assimilated. I also researched fusion warheads over turn and with the help of loads and loads of planetary missiles (I got over half the 2 billion initial imperialists !, some 1.3 billion) I easily fend off the massive hiver fleet in orbit within another two turns, some running around and CNC sniping involved.

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Mr.Weasel
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by Mr.Weasel » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:25 pm

I am curious if anyone has outlined the essential effects...lore wise not mechanic wise...of certain plagues, like the beast bomb specifically....like symptoms, speed of condition onset, just effects in general. Like I am imagining maybe drops in intelligence levels before full on loss of sentience which would probably take a few weeks or something. I dunno, just curious.
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Mecron
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by Mecron » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:33 pm

Have you seen 28 Days?

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Mr.Weasel
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Re: Bio Weapons

Post by Mr.Weasel » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:07 pm

I am assuming the zombie flick and not the Bullock film with the drug addicts? I have only seen the one with the zombies if that is the case, however I didn't really consider the beast bomb as a zombie causing virus....merely one that would destroy the ability for the targeted species to reason/form coherent thought patterns/recall memories...effectively leaving them mindless animals sort of wandering around, leaving their machinery unattended/running for months without anyone maintaining them causing the infrastructure decline...also infrastructure becomes zero because no one down there is mentally capable of operating anything anymore.

I didn't ever get the vibe that it would cause any sort of blood lust or cannibalism like would be associated with zombies....it would just degrade the mind enough so that no one was capable of doing anything or even realizing it.

For me I picture a kind of regression that would start with maybe memory lapses...moving to difficulty concentrating/doing complex tasks...moving to more serious memory lapses, degradation of cognition in general, lisping/rapid loose of language skills...and then the mind is just gone.
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