Shields

Galactic diplomacy with extreme prejudice.
Post Reply
User avatar
nickersonm
Posts: 1566
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:02 pm

Re: Shields

Post by nickersonm » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:32 am

Large masses of shielded DEs set on pursue or close to target will often slip over and around eachother, distributing the fire across your entire swarm. This can randomly accomplish the tactic harperbrad described.

- nickersonm

User avatar
Space Voyager
Posts: 3508
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:23 pm

Re: Shields

Post by Space Voyager » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:54 am

nickersonm wrote:This can randomly accomplish the tactic harperbrad described.

:thumbsup: I love this sentence!
ErinysSolForce Intelligence has great difficulty penetrating Liir society to that depth, for obvious reasons. fibioLack of scuba gear?

User avatar
Rayp
Posts: 1516
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:44 am

Re: Shields

Post by Rayp » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:12 pm

Mecron wrote:Ohhhhh so many replies...so little good will. But instead...the one of us WITH too much time on their hands should probably look up the hit point differences(including the hps provided by the shield) between a MK4 shield cruiser with full armor and the same cruiser with a hammerhead section and Admantite. I won't ask you to think it terms of shields that provide specialized invulnerability to half the weapons tree, like meson and grav shields...cause that doesn't involve literal numbers and is all abstract and stuff.


Problem is, i want shields to be worthwhile on their own and not combined with armor. In the few games i got shields, i usually rolled bad with armor (playing human). Let's say i was not thrilled by the performances of my shield ships... With all the drawbacks and weakness shield ships have, a bit more HPs to the shields would not be a bad idea, at least give them enough that using shield breaker become more than an optional strat.

(was that good? "Sarcasm ridden" is kind of hard to nail. Filled...but not really "oozing" with sarcasm. Kind of hard to get just right....let me know if it was too much/too little.) :lol:


A lot less sarcastic than the previous one... You are losing your touch :P.

User avatar
Mecron
Kerberos
Posts: 38480
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:26 pm

Re: Shields

Post by Mecron » Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:16 pm

Ray, damn! I am sorry! I was tired...I will try and get the sarcasm back up to a proper standard again, I promise! :lol:

I think your point that something should be better than something without using all the advantages of something is somewhat dubious. Especially since it does open up the reflective point of if its equal on its own, what kind of monster does it become combined. There is always wiggle room to tweak some shield values and such, but the reason why I am arguing the bigger picture with you ray is that to change things based on NOT realizing the full potential of something is to risk changing it into a "Supergamewinner" for a player who does.

And once again you apply the highest end of other techs and ignore the higher end of shields, and the benefits thereof.


And just for the record of "destroyers shields drop too fast" line of argument...sure...In a firestorm it probably only buys you that first volley. On the other hand, I am not sure where this fantasy comes from that gives you the idea that the "naked" destroyer was somehow going to survive that first volley intact with some sort of super middle section in place. Once again...do the math.

And shield breakers were not really designed with the shield you can pummel down in mind. You REALLY need to play a game where someone is using meson/grav against you.

User avatar
Rayp
Posts: 1516
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:44 am

Re: Shields

Post by Rayp » Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:56 am

Mecron wrote: I think your point that something should be better than something without using all the advantages of something is somewhat dubious. Especially since it does open up the reflective point of if its equal on its own, what kind of monster does it become combined. There is always wiggle room to tweak some shield values and such, but the reason why I am arguing the bigger picture with you ray is that to change things based on NOT realizing the full potential of something is to risk changing it into a "Supergamewinner" for a player who does.


As long as everything has a weakness to exploit, i don't mind that some combination are powerful. Shields have plenty of weakness, even if it was 10 times stronger it would not be an end all tech. But it would be worthwhile to use because in some situation it would win some battles because the enemy don't have the right tools to fight them.

I think you dilema about not wanting shield + armor to be too strong would be to add some inherent weaknesses to the armor, or some weakness that appear when the two are on the same design...

And once again you apply the highest end of other techs and ignore the higher end of shields, and the benefits thereof.


You should have thought of that when you allowed armor and reflective coating to be put on the same section. This makes a ship nearly impervious to both ballistic and pulse laser weapons. I wonder what happen when you combine them with meson or grav shields (dunno, never tried yet)...

I think every combinations should come with a tactical trade off, not just an higher cost to build... Yes, i am concerned about game balance.

And just for the record of "destroyers shields drop too fast" line of argument...sure...In a firestorm it probably only buys you that first volley. On the other hand, I am not sure where this fantasy comes from that gives you the idea that the "naked" destroyer was somehow going to survive that first volley intact with some sort of super middle section in place. Once again...do the math.


In fact, i'm more concerned about cruisers not lasting longer when using shields... Anyway, what i have in mind is that the extra armor and weapon mean ships might last a bit longer and deal a bit more damage to the enemy before going down. I don't find shields useful because they don't make the ship last much longer, and it cripple the ship's firepower so that even if it last a bit longer, it won't do as much damage... In the end, it's not how long my ship last but how quickly i can dispatch the opposition so some of my ships are left at the end...

Ok, i'm not a real time tactical genius.

And shield breakers were not really designed with the shield you can pummel down in mind. You REALLY need to play a game where someone is using meson/grav against you.


I never had the chance to try those in any of my games yet. Either i won before that or the Odds are stacked against me and i can't win... Of course, i only played against the AI so far, i know well that players do better designs and control their ships better...

User avatar
Coyote27
Posts: 2958
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:13 am

Re: Shields

Post by Coyote27 » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:14 am

Keep in mind that shield sections (and absorbers) are limited in the armor they can be plated with. Also, there's plenty of weapons that aren't stopped well or at all by either reflective or ballistic armor.
There's no specialist shield that can protect you from everything, either.
"In the absence of any orders, go find something and kill it." -Erwin Rommel

forsaken1111
Posts: 1009
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:53 am

Re: Shields

Post by forsaken1111 » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:03 am

So who loves the new tech which doubles the strength of all the shields?

I know I do.

Darloth
Posts: 1883
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:38 pm

Re: Shields

Post by Darloth » Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:26 am

Oh, it's nice, I just think maybe it should be lower in the tree.

I didn't have so much trouble with L3 or 4 shields, but it's the L1s and 2s I think could do with a sometimes-boost.

There's already quantum capacitors at the AM level which increases shields... not sure by how much though.

User avatar
Ace
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:00 am

Re: Shields

Post by Ace » Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:21 am

Having an early fusion-era option that increases shield strength but also increases shield recharge time would work as a good balance.

Then tossing in one more AM era tech that decreases recharge time. (mutually exclusive with the earlier fusion option)

Both of which would be 'checkmark' options for the shield section.

User avatar
Mecron
Kerberos
Posts: 38480
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:26 pm

Re: Shields

Post by Mecron » Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:56 am

or you could actually play them and realize the shield recharge time and strength improved overall in AMoC in general :thumbsup:

forsaken1111
Posts: 1009
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:53 am

Re: Shields

Post by forsaken1111 » Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:00 am

I know I've said it before, but I have to comment again. I love how this game actually 'evolves' over time. Expansions aren't just slapping in new units and maps, the overall state of peace AND war technology is evolving.

User avatar
Winterbrew89
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:00 pm

Re: Shields

Post by Winterbrew89 » Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:03 am

Mecron wrote:or you could actually play them and realize the shield recharge time and strength improved overall in AMoC in general :thumbsup:


sure did shield regen is crazy fast now

User avatar
DaNuker
Posts: 1189
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:14 am

Re: Shields

Post by DaNuker » Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:03 am

I just gave the Shield Mk 4 + the passive Shield Magnifiers a spin.

They definitely stood up to a hell lot more fire than I used to associate with shields.

Maybe that's why the shielded VN Berserker Discs are so hard to kill now in early game.

Darloth
Posts: 1883
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:38 pm

Re: Shields

Post by Darloth » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:20 pm

Mecron wrote:or you could actually play them and realize the shield recharge time and strength improved overall in AMoC in general :thumbsup:


Oooh, nice! I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist the urge to rush up the techtree and play with all the cool toys -first-!

Thankyou anyway for continuing to update and tweak things. As forsaken1111 said, it's much appreciated and very enjoyable.

User avatar
Mecron
Kerberos
Posts: 38480
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:26 pm

Re: Shields

Post by Mecron » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:54 pm

you are all most welcome...and this is exactly why we pursued this "living strat game" path. Its harder for us for sure but if you guys were going to play for over 2 years now, we wanted you to feel like your game was growing up with you :wink:

Post Reply

Return to “The Weapons”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests