Need details on trade system

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AlanF5
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by AlanF5 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:13 pm

BlueTemplar wrote:But all the amounts ARE accounted for, to the last credit! It's just that you get more than that...

kdonovan wrote:I think the projected income does not allow for any changes due to altering CH due to terraforming, changes in population or IO or reductions in planetary development costs. It just seems to be a static projection.
I'm going to agree with kdonovan on this. The precise order of operations done during turn processing would have an impact on the bottom line.

Population growth
Industrial production (assume unused IO->money conversion happens here)
Industrial development
Terraforming development
Tax collecting
Environmental hazard cost
That thing I forgot :P

Rearrange those and the bottom line is different. Unless you can state the order of turn-processing operations with 100% accuracy, you can't be certain you are performing the same accounting as the game.
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BlueTemplar
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by BlueTemplar » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:32 pm

That's exactly what I did in my colonization simulator. And except the terraforming IO cost and Zuul income (and maybe some rounding issues in some places), it's right up to the last credit.

But that doesn't matter. When you add up all the income from planets and trade, you get exactly the same numbers as stated in the Projected Income. Why would the game then use a completely different system to calculate your real income?

kdonovan
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by kdonovan » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:54 pm

My guess is that it is not updating changes that will occur when it generates it's projected income, rather it assumes conditions (population, hazard ratings, infrastructure, development expenses, trade route activation, etc.) will all remain the same and calculates any projected income off of the current figures. When one of these changes it causes the future real income to deviate from the projected.

Edit:
BTW, why is this thread out of sync time-wise. It appears at the bottom of the page in the forum even though it is the most recent.

Re-edit:
Ah, I see. They are adding new forums for SotS II.

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BlueTemplar
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by BlueTemplar » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:15 pm

Why would current income be calculated from projected figures? And as I already stated, this theory does not hold, because this extra money is different from the economy growth from one turn to the next...

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nickersonm
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by nickersonm » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:34 am

I bet one of your worlds was building something. Projected income is incorrect for converting IO to cash when some of the IO is being used to build.

Sharoth
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by Sharoth » Wed May 21, 2014 6:42 pm

Quick question(s).

1 - For a trade route to work, does EACH colony need to make freighters for that colony to have a trade route? Or can I just have one or two worlds make freighters and they will gravitate to the worlds that need freighters?

2 - Did I read it correctly that it was 5 freighters per trade route?

3 - How would I convert from standard freighters to megafreighters once I ahve researched and made them?

Thanks for the answers. I finally started playing SotS and am enjoying it.

ZedF
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by ZedF » Wed May 21, 2014 7:14 pm

Sharoth wrote:1 - For a trade route to work, does EACH colony need to make freighters for that colony to have a trade route? Or can I just have one or two worlds make freighters and they will gravitate to the worlds that need freighters?

It goes by trade sectors. Every freighter built at a colony that is part of a given trade sector A will automatically be placed in trade sector A. Thus any such freighter can fill any route that is for any colony in trade sector A. If you actually need the freighters at trade sector B, you will have to move them manually from that point.

2 - Did I read it correctly that it was 5 freighters per trade route?
Yes.

3 - How would I convert from standard freighters to megafreighters once I ahve researched and made them?

Exactly as above. The trade sector will automatically use the highest income freighters first when calculating revenue. What to do with the old freighters when they are replaced by the megafreighters is up to you; you can bring them to a colony (e.g. one building megafreighters) and scrap them, or you can send them off toward the frontier for when new colonies become mature enough to start trading.

Thanks for the answers. I finally started playing SotS and am enjoying it.

Hope you have a lot of fun. :)
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

Sharoth
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by Sharoth » Wed May 21, 2014 7:19 pm

Thanks. I just need to remember to colonize more and squash the Zull early on. Also, how do you move the freighters? Do you just click on the colony or what?

Torezu
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by Torezu » Wed May 21, 2014 7:40 pm

Ctrl-Spacebar (or Ctrl-Shift-Spacebar, I don't remember off hand) or the menu bar at the bottom allows you to open the map for trade sectors. You can then select them and move freighters from there to a world, or to another route. This is actually a way (which some consider a bit of an exploit) to get around node line limitations to some degree. This is the same way you'd access the freighters to move old DE ones out and new CR ones in, in the event that you wanted to do so.

Note also that trade routes need to be allocated by world in the trade screen (E or the pie graph, Trade tab), and the world supporting a trade route consumes some of its IO every turn to do so.

ZedF
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by ZedF » Wed May 21, 2014 9:41 pm

Sharoth wrote:Thanks. I just need to remember to colonize more and squash the Zull early on.

Squashing the Zuul doesn't really have anything much to do with trade or piracy in SotS1. Pirates seem to be random events and not something initiated by the AI empires. (Note that live players can undertake piracy in SotS1, however, which may increase the number of piracy-related combats you get.) On the other hand, you may very well have other reasons for wanting to squash the Zuul. :)

In SotS2, having Zuul nearby will increase the amount of piracy combats you have, but the mechanics of trade in SotS2 are completely different from SotS1.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

Tally
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by Tally » Fri May 23, 2014 4:22 am

Along the same line of thought as Piracy, do AI players engage in trade within their own borders? I have witnessed them initiating alien trade; another empire trading with me with their own freighters.

The real purpose to this thought: Is it worthwhile to raid AI trade sectors? Can it be an appreciable enough income to invest raiders into, especially for Zuul who otherwise cannot gain trade income?

kjn
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by kjn » Fri May 23, 2014 7:38 am

Yes, the AI players do trade, but they have a tendency to only do minimal investment, by opening up all the trade sectors but only using a single freighter per sector.

ZedF
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by ZedF » Fri May 23, 2014 10:46 am

They do eventually fill all their trade routes with DD freighters, given time; they just don't prioritize it as much as a live player might. Also, they never design nor build megafreighters.

As far as privateering goes, yes live players can do it against the AI, and you can occasionally ambush a few freighters to kill that way, but it's not a reliable source of income. If you are putting out privateer groups into a rival empire you would like to weaken/distract, it's because actual war against that empire would be inadvisable for one of several possible reasons -- most typically being, they have more/bigger guns than you and you don't want to piss them off.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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