RBSotS1 SG12

Tactics and Action Reports.
Post Reply
Zalzidrax
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:22 pm

Re: RBSotS1 SG12

Post by Zalzidrax » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:49 pm

I usually put red lasers in the small slots and gauss in the medium, just so that the accuracy/tracking match up.

purplemarmot
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 6:09 pm

Re: RBSotS1 SG12

Post by purplemarmot » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:52 pm

Gryfalcon, go ahead, I'll go at the end.

User avatar
Gryfalcon
Posts: 590
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:30 am

Re: RBSotS1 SG12

Post by Gryfalcon » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:03 am

So Zuul. The only race I'm scared to try and play.

Turn 30

I don't see the garrison for Pylos, so I queue up a couple Pebbles at Volans.

Turn 31

I queue up the rest of the garrison for Pylos at Volans. We have 73 Units of Value Exchange (UVE) in the bank.

Turn 32

Now that ships are starting to arrive at Talok, it looks like the garrison is in there, so there will be a few extra Pebbles at Volans, I guess.

Combat:
  • Cargg - a Derelict is here to greet us. The planet is an iceball and Rip Bores are really, really slow. Fortunately, they are also tough enough to take a hit from an AM torp. Also, gauss canons are really good at hitting the broad side of a barn, but not much else. I manage to drop one small turret.

Turn 33

Rip Bore and Pyro retreated from Cargg. I'll leave Pebbles there to plink at the Derelict.

Rip Fleet 2 heads back to Pylos with its new escorts.

With a third of the budget currently allocated to fleet maintainence, I'm going to avoid building anything I don't have to.

Combat:
  • Cargg - the derelict starts this time with it's main weapons pointing at Pebbles, so the torp fires before I can get out of its arc and blows the engine. Not being able to manuver means the second torp finishes the job.

Turn 36

All of the colonization elements arrive at Talok. I pull off the extra Pebbles and send everything else to Pylos.

Combat:
  • Procyon - both Fane Lao and Defenders of Muur have come scouting . Looks like they've been fighting, as DoM already has some plasma leaking and goes down in only a few volleys. Fane holds up long enough to blow a tanker's tanks, which takes down the mission sections on most of the rest of Rip Fleet 1

Turn 37

I send Rip Fleet 1 to Talok for repairs because that seems quicker than ginning up replacement escorts at Volans and sending them up. But maybe scrapping and replacing them would have been better?

Turn 38

I cobble what's left at Procyon and name it Rip 3. I send it to Talok because I don't think it can get through the Hivers or Derelict to explore further past Procyon.

Turn 40

Terraforming at Talok is done, so I turn overharvest off or, at least, as off as it gets for the Horde. A DoM scout will be visiting, but we have the garrison and the spare Pebbles I mis-built for Pylos so that shouldn't be a problem.

To me, this looks like the same problem I always have with Zuul - if I build what seems like enough ships, most of my budget goes to maintainence and I'm broke by turn 50. Any hints on what I've done wrong?

Good luck, ivra.
Summer grasses:
all that remain of great soldiers’
imperial dreams - Basho

User avatar
ivra
Posts: 1346
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:33 pm

Re: RBSotS1 SG12

Post by ivra » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:19 am

Turn 40
The problem with this game is that we are not expanding quickly enough. A really bad setback is that both the links from Procyon met something and the rip bore fleet retreated instead of continuing. The only possible places to continue boring is from Gotham and Pylos. The one at Pylos will start boring a new link. Since the link from our HW is turning yellow I am building a new rip bore fleet there. It can refresh that link before moving to explore new territory.
There are 19 colonizers heading towards Pylos. I might hold back some of them to see if the rip bore can find another place to live before committing them all to Pylos.
I am also building a tanker at Talok to sent the 5 extra Pebbles and the tanker to fight the Alien Derelict using AR. It should work.

Fights
Defending Talok from incoming Defender of Muur scout. AR and no damaged suffered.

Turn 43
Hiver is also going to Kumixhos where the Rip 2 fleet will arrive next turn. They cannot be allowed to gate that system. In a desperate attempt to stop them I will send all ships heading to Pylos to colonize the planet to attack the incoming hiver ships. I will leave only one colonizer to colonize the planet, but all the others will have to try to stop the hivers.

Turn 44
Kumixhos is a rock by the way. The rip bore fleet will have to wait until the hiver fight is over.

Fights
Passing through Procyon: A single Akhilleos the Swirt scout was taken out by AR. Again with no damage suffered. AR with lots of ships is powerful. I hope it goes just as well when fighting the 7 hiver ships.

Fights
Defending the rock called Kumixhos from hivers: We have 34 DEs, they have 7. AR. Victory, and we lost only 3 ships (2 colonizers and a tanker).

Turn 47
Now I have to guess where to go with Rip 2. It better be an empty system that gives access to the core of the galaxy. I am also building ships for Procyon. We really have to get more colonies.

Fights
AD at Cargg: AR. Partial success. Lost three ships, but inflicted 11880 in damage to the AD. It should be cleared next turn.

Turn 48
Sending off a single Pebbles and a Reproducer towards Procyon. Both of our starting colonies are building ships for its colonization. More will come later.

Fights
AD at Cargg part 2: AR and victory but lost another ship. Probably because I used gauss cannons and not lasers, I destroyed the whole thing, giving only a 10% boost for one turn. The main goal was achieved though, which was to open another possible route to the center of the galaxy.

Turn 49
The heroes are back at Pylos. I will leave 4 colonizers in case we find anything good. They can be used to colonize a world each while extra ships are being produced and sent later. I am sending one tanker to Kumixhos to observe activities in the area. Another one will head for Gotham. Even though, research of Waldo is at 50% I will turn it up to max this turn to get the most of the 10% research bonus.

Turn 50
Bad news! A silicoid queen will arrive at Procyon next turn. Since a lot of ships are going to or through Procyon we will lose a lot of ships, including Rip 3. To take it out build a bunch of armors (15 ships should do, use a mix of Pebbles and Candles) and use AR. I have designed a new armor DE with red lasers in all the slots to use in this battle and future Alien Derelict battles.


Closing notes:
I am worried regarding this particular game. We are at turn 50 and still far away from reaching the center of the galaxy. Personally I think short node links are better than long ones. In the beginning I would have created a link from Talok to Cargg (instead of Gotham) and from Cargg to Altair and Rizdet.

Also I regard this game as more difficult than a game where the AI is set to difficult. The AIs all started with 4 colonies (a big big big boost) and are practically at the center of the galaxy at the start of the game. To make it worse, the research and economy is set to 50%. This game is crazy hard! I think I would have enjoyed the game more if the AIs started with only one colony (and at normal difficulty) where we have a decent chance of getting to the center of the galaxy first. Having 50% tech & eco is bad enough when you play Zuul. So I vote for a restart with a more normal game difficulty.

Save:
RBSotS1-SG12 T050.sav
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

ZedF
Board Ninja
Board Ninja
Posts: 12613
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:13 pm

Re: RBSotS1 SG12

Post by ZedF » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:54 am

Putting your rivals down to a single colony start would make it a cakewalk, ivra. The AI isn't geared to operate with an economy that small. I don't think the other players want a game quite that easy. ;)

Now it sounds like you got a poor start location to go along with the higher difficulty, but 4 planet starts for the AI on normal is not really that insurmountable an obstacle. Certainly not if you get an average starting position. I've given that level of advantage to the difficult AI and, with something approaching an average start, it's quite winnable even on 50/50.

As far as taking a lot of turns to make progress goes, that's normal for 50/50. The trick is to realize that your neighbors are cash-strapped as well even with their extra planets. You really want to make an effort to interrupt your rivals' colonization efforts before they turn into mature planets in this kind of setting, as getting an AI to blow a whole bunch of colonizers on a baby colony only to see it snuffed is a relatively big setback for them under these conditions.

If you guys all want to roll another start, I'll oblige; I just picked the first one I rolled this time. I can see if I can find one that's a little less unfriendly at the start.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

User avatar
ivra
Posts: 1346
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:33 pm

Re: RBSotS1 SG12

Post by ivra » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:33 am

Well, it might be just me then. I play to have a good time and enjoy myself. And I particularly enjoy the early exploration part of the game, plus colonization and getting big. So much that I normally play games in the interval where all players start with normal condition and the AIs are set to normal to games where the AIs still start with default condition and are set to normal, but where I give myself 10 mill, 10 cols and 15 techs. I have played a couple of game where I have set the AIs to difficult, but even if I am winning I tend to get frustrated a lot and stop playing them. To this day I have only completed a few games where the AIs are set to hard, out of my 150 games that I have won. I guess I am a kind of sunshine player that likes cake walks. Proving that I can pull it off doesn't really appeal to me...

If the others want to continue this game, I will continue it. In the future I will have to think hard about participate in another SG that is this hard.
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

User avatar
Abyss
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:21 pm

Re: RBSotS1 SG12

Post by Abyss » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:56 pm

I'll continue it, if we lose, we lose.

Edit: I forgot that Zalzidrax had yet to go, but I played 10 and another 10 and things are stable, although random events did get in the way a bit. The save is uploaded, but if you'd like to follow through with Zalzidrax's turns that's fine. It just seemed that there was low morale in the ranks and I thought I might try to ease the situation. I can post my write up if necessary.

User avatar
Gryfalcon
Posts: 590
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:30 am

Re: RBSotS1 SG12

Post by Gryfalcon » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:14 pm

Abyss wrote:Edit: I forgot that Zalzidrax had yet to go


And purplemarmot, too 8)
Summer grasses:
all that remain of great soldiers’
imperial dreams - Basho

User avatar
Abyss
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:21 pm

Re: RBSotS1 SG12

Post by Abyss » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:19 pm

Oh right, definitely forgot about purplemarmot, I was just going off the first page list :?

Zalzidrax
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:22 pm

Re: RBSotS1 SG12

Post by Zalzidrax » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:23 pm

I figured 20 turns was a bit too far ahead to skip, so I started from the turn 50 save.

51 I queue up a few ships in preparation for a battle against the swarm. Also, 5 gauss cannon defense fleets seems an extravagance with this economy. I start moving them to the front lines and replacing them with a couple red laser armors.

52 node bore fleet gets trashed. I notice a hiver fleet incoming at Gotham and divert a few of the ships intended for swarm duty to there.

53 Waldo units! I decide battle computers are the thing most needed if we're going to get into fights and queue them up. Good god research is slow.

54 Lose a couple more ships already on trajectory to the swarm.

55 Same as last turn. Swarmkiller fleet sets out.

57 Run into a tarkan colony team. Lose a tanker for 3 of their combat ships.

58 Fend off the hiver fleet at Gotham with only a couple losses. There is now a Tarka scout inbound. It won't survive.

59 I autoresolve the battle to be safe, and the swarm-killer fleet is successful! A mass of colony ships is inbound.

60 Well the colony ships are all here at Procyon. One rip bore looks like it may run into Morrigi and have a bad time - I stole it's guard contingent to defend against the hiver, since losing a key planet to a hiver gate is miles worse than losing a rip-bore. Hopefully there will be asteroids to hide in.

Looks like it's already gotten a bit ugly in the middle. Hopefully we'll be able to snag a few key worlds, regardless. Also, thinking longer term, I'm not sure if I've ever successfully assaulted a homeworld with just DEs and minimal tech. I'm thinking we're going to have to rush one of the weaker factions at some point, though. Anyone have luck with a particular strategy?

User avatar
ivra
Posts: 1346
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:33 pm

Re: RBSotS1 SG12

Post by ivra » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:21 pm

Nice going, Zalzidrax!

I noticed Procyon has a note with an "n" inside. That is my doing, I'm afraid. I usually mark the planets I'm about to colonize with a double n key-press since that is the least amount of work to create a note. I was unaware that I did it in this game as well. Sorry about that; old habit is hard to break. To the next player: Feel free to remove it :)

I have attacked colonies with DEs. I normally use combat ships to fight enemy ships and assault shuttles to land on the colony. It is easiest to do with emitters as all ships are safe once they have reached the colony and have put up the emitter-wall. After that only 1 of 20 missiles hit the ships. The other approach is to research PD and mix in a few PD DEs. The Assault Shuttle ships should also have mostly PDs. Note: Do not put PD in every slot. I did that once and the ship just wandered off when I selected close in on the colony. It seems that a ship needs at least one non-PD weapon in order to close in on the colony and stay there. Since we do not have emitters, I suggest researching VRF and hope that we get PD. Then we can attack with Pebbles, PD ships and assault shuttles.

To reach the colony with assault shuttles one trick is to divide the fleet. Send the Pebbles to the left and forward, while the two CnC ships (I always use 2 since then I can replace it immediately if one of them loses its middle section) to the right and initially not towards the colony. The point is to get the AI to spot the combat ships. These ships will then move further to the left and fight the enemy ships, while the two CnC ships move towards the colony. Once the enemy ships are down or our combat ships are dead it is time to assault the colony. Order all surviving ships back into the reserves. Assault shuttles will start to pop up at our CnC ships and the invasion can begin. With 10 assault ships a colony should fall within 1 or maybe 2 turns. A HW will probably need 3 turns.

I agree with selecting Battle Computers and I will suggest that we go for VRF and PD as the next two techs.
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

User avatar
Abyss
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:21 pm

Re: RBSotS1 SG12

Post by Abyss » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:27 pm

I hadn't thought of this in the beginning, but since the Morrigi are in the game we may want to send one colonizer to a planet to see if there's a trap. Nothing worse than losing all your ships to a colony trap.

purplemarmot
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 6:09 pm

Re: RBSotS1 SG12

Post by purplemarmot » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:06 pm

ivra wrote:I agree with selecting Battle Computers and I will suggest that we go for VRF and PD as the next two techs.


I agree.

The assault shuttle tactic works well, though I learned it in the last few months from reading the earlier SGs. It can be very, very expensive :evil: without emitters or PD, especially against homeworlds. Even if we have PD in the tech tree, with the slow research, we'll probably need to attempt assaults without it for quite awhile.

Ivra, I've played games probably the same way regarding difficulty, but my favorite SG so far was SG3a (the Liir vs. the 5 hiver team) partly because of the difficulty. I tried my own with similar settings and struggled the first two games with those settings, but it challenged me to learn and get better. My third game with those settings was huge success as I focused on expansion and ship building instead of research (like I'm want to do). Also the challenge and tactics to win a war against 5 teamed hivers was a lot of fun. As long as the difficulty encourages me to become a better player, I'm willing to play this through, even if we eventually lose.

I will admit that the game can evolve in a brutal, time consuming slog after the expansion and growth which may not be as fun as the growth and expansion, but the reward of overcoming it, I found was worth it (for me, at least).

ZedF, Ivra, and Abyss. Thanks for the discussion about Zuul colonization. I had no idea that the overharvest and Zuul growth rate changed the terra/infra so far towards terraforming. I did some of my own tests, looking at the IO, it's amazing how much IO the Zuul overharvesting adds to baby colonies. In some cases, almost 80% of the IO is from the overharvest!

User avatar
ivra
Posts: 1346
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:33 pm

Re: RBSotS1 SG12

Post by ivra » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:04 pm

purplemarmot wrote:Ivra, I've played games probably the same way regarding difficulty, but my favorite SG so far was SG3a (the Liir vs. the 5 hiver team) partly because of the difficulty. I tried my own with similar settings and struggled the first two games with those settings, but it challenged me to learn and get better. My third game with those settings was huge success as I focused on expansion and ship building instead of research (like I'm want to do). Also the challenge and tactics to win a war against 5 teamed hivers was a lot of fun. As long as the difficulty encourages me to become a better player, I'm willing to play this through, even if we eventually lose.

Nice to see I am not completely alone. :) Sometimes I get the feeling that nobody enjoys an easy game...
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

User avatar
ivra
Posts: 1346
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:33 pm

Re: RBSotS1 SG12

Post by ivra » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:07 pm

Abyss wrote:I hadn't thought of this in the beginning, but since the Morrigi are in the game...

Is that really so? I always assumed colony traps were always in the game if random events are on. I didn't know that it required Morrigi to be in the game. And I cannot say either way looking back at my games as I normally play with random event on and one AI of each race...
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

Post Reply

Return to “T.A.R.”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests