Checking for interest in a new SG

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PaulMcC
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Re: Checking for interest in a new SG

Post by PaulMcC » Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:27 am

Hi All,

Having re-installed a couple of weeks ago after two years away from SotS, I'm interested in joining an SG if you have space. (Weekend player only though.)

ZedF
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Re: Checking for interest in a new SG

Post by ZedF » Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:53 am

Would you be ok with being skipped if your turn came up and it was not a weekend or close to one? We seem to usually have turns turn around in a day or two recently, so it doesn't seem fair to hold up the game for a week if your turn comes up at an inconvenient time.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

PaulMcC
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Re: Checking for interest in a new SG

Post by PaulMcC » Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:53 am

No problem at all.

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ivra
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Re: Checking for interest in a new SG

Post by ivra » Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:13 am

A ring map is a good idea, I think. Then there is a chance that at least some of the Zuuls should combine to create a mighty empire before we can get to it.
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

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BlueTemplar
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Re: Checking for interest in a new SG

Post by BlueTemplar » Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:52 pm

Ring seems nice.

ZedF wrote:Here's ivra's suggestion for a rather severe restriction on exploitation without curtailing exploration and expansion:

ivra wrote:Yes, I would like to play another Hiver game. They are my favorite race, after all. Hivers vs Zuul sounds like it can be a hard start and the rule below makes it even harder...

I have just found an easy rule that does what we tried to achieve in SG18 which I have tested in a couple of games. Instead of setting restrictions on expansion, the restrictions are set on colony development. From a roleplaying perspective imagine that the Hiver empire have two artifacts. One allows them to terraform a colony, while the other one allows them to build infrastructure on a colony. So at any one time only one colony can grow infrastructure and only one colony can be terraformed (the same world may have both artifacts to do both). A further restriction is that only two colonies at a time can be under development. If at any time both of the developing colonies need the same artifact (for instance they have both been terraformed) then one of them must set Trade to 100% (to stop colony development) while the other uses the needed artifact. In this situation one of the artifacts will remain idle until one of the colonies are completely developed.

This restriction might work well in a game vs all Zuul. We will develop colonies very slowly while the Zuul will do just the opposite...

My suggestion is to start an advanced game. I.e. everybody gets 15 techs, and a few colonies. Maybe we can try to put the AI on hard this time. But if we do so I think we need to start with at least as many colonies as the AI.


Sounds like a much more challenging set up than last time. Given that we are going to be facing a Zuulmass relatively quickly, and that we are probably too slow to kill many baby colonies as it forms (assuming we can even reach them), we might have to start on a small map with enough bonus planets handed out that the map is mostly full to start with.

In general I think this idea of requiring artifacts for development is worth pursuing but needs a bit of play testing to see how best to employ it. If we were to start on a larger map with more expansion room, we might have to modify the number of artifacts the Hivers have so there are more than just one of each type, but I don't yet have a feel for how many that should be, and of course it also depends on what other challenges the map/scenario poses.

Another way to stop colony development is to set shipbuilding to 100%.

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ivra
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Re: Checking for interest in a new SG

Post by ivra » Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:22 pm

BlueTemplar wrote:Another way to stop colony development is to set shipbuilding to 100%.

That only works if you are actually building ships for the IO. If not, the unused IO will go towards terraforming/infrastructure. Of course, using the entire IO to build ships should be allowed as well as setting it to 100% trade.
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

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ivra
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Re: Checking for interest in a new SG

Post by ivra » Sun Aug 21, 2016 10:22 am

Here is one suggestion of starting parameters:

Map: Ring
Plantes: 120
Number of Players: 8
Human Player: Hiver
AI Players: 7x Zuul on Difficult setting
Initial Treasury: Everybody starts with 1 150 000
Initial Colonies: Everybody starts with 5 colonies
Initial Technologies: Everybody starts with 15 technologies
Random Encounters: 100%
Distance, Size, Resources, Economy, Research all on default settings.

Special Rules:
  • The Hiver Empire have two artifacts that can be used to terraform and build infrastructure on colonies. One allows them to terraform a colony, while the other one allows them to build infrastructure on a colony. So at any one time only one colony can grow infrastructure and only one colony can be terraformed (the same world may use both artifacts to do both).
  • A maximum of two colonies can be under development at any one time.
  • If at any time there is more than one colony in need of the same artifact (for instance if both developing colonies have been fully terraformed) only one colony can use the needed artifact while the other colonies must stop colony development. This can be done by setting Trade to 100% or by using the entire IO to build ships. In this situation the second artifacts will remain idle until the colony using the first artifact is completely developed.
  • If a colony will be fully developed the next turn, orders to colonize a planet can be given this turn as it will not put the Hiver Empire in a state where three colonies are under development at the same time.
  • If a fully developed colony is attacked and suffer terraforming and/or infrastructure damage, it must be repaired using the artifacts. This is the only situation where the Hiver Empire is allowed to end up having more than two worlds under development. The damage should be repaired as soon as possible, but can be postponed as long as the attack is ongoing.

What do you think? Would this work? If you think so I can create SG 19 and get it going by playing the first 20 turns.
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

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BlueTemplar
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Re: Checking for interest in a new SG

Post by BlueTemplar » Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:15 am

Seems good! That last requirement should force us to pay extra attention to the defense of our colonies, which is going to be hard, considering Zuul's aggressive nature! (though the opponents concentrating their efforts on gates first should help)

ZedF
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Re: Checking for interest in a new SG

Post by ZedF » Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:22 pm

We might be asking for punishment, but sure give it a try. :)
Some thoughts for the first 20 - you're probably aware of these but:
- gate everything (obviously) as we need to keep the Zuul at arms length and restrict them as much as possible
- trade will be very important since colony development is so restricted
- we can always overbuild colonizers/biomes if necessary to boost the colony without the infra artifact or repair damage. This could be OK early on if we find multiple low hazard worlds, but this might be mostly a red herring later since our economy won't likely support it once our fleet maintenance gets up there.
- my thinking is that the most efficient way to manage the artifacts is that the lowest CH planet/highest population colony always gets the infra artifact until it no longer needs it, then we switch. So after the first colony, new colonies should be generally expecting to start on terraforming initially, then switch to infra, then finish terraforming.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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ivra
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Re: Checking for interest in a new SG

Post by ivra » Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:38 pm

ZedF wrote:We might be asking for punishment, but sure give it a try. :)
Some thoughts for the first 20 - you're probably aware of these but:
- gate everything (obviously) as we need to keep the Zuul at arms length and restrict them as much as possible
- trade will be very important since colony development is so restricted
- we can always overbuild colonizers/biomes if necessary to boost the colony without the infra artifact or repair damage. This could be OK early on if we find multiple low hazard worlds, but this might be mostly a red herring later since our economy won't likely support it once our fleet maintenance gets up there.
- my thinking is that the most efficient way to manage the artifacts is that the lowest CH planet/highest population colony always gets the infra artifact until it no longer needs it, then we switch. So after the first colony, new colonies should be generally expecting to start on terraforming initially, then switch to infra, then finish terraforming.

Yes, biomes/colonizers can be used to build infrastructure/terraform a colony. It is a good option for damaged colonies that only need a little bit of both. I also found that capturing enemy colonies without destroying a lot of infrastructure was very worth it. In my test play I found that the infrastructure artifact was the one that was always in demand. Using this on the colony that will build the most infrastructure makes sense.

I am a bit eager to get this going so I am starting it right away. Will create the SG19 thread shortly.
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

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BlueTemplar
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Re: Checking for interest in a new SG

Post by BlueTemplar » Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:58 pm

Good point about repairing with colonizers!

ivra wrote:
  • A maximum of two colonies can be under development at any one time.
  • (If a fully developed colony is attacked and suffer terraforming and/or infrastructure damage, it must be repaired using the artifacts. This is the only situation where the Hiver Empire is allowed to end up having more than two worlds under development. )The damage should be repaired as soon as possible, but can be postponed as long as the attack is ongoing.

(emphasis mine)
Are these requirements really necessary?
Wouldn't the restriction of only having a single terraforming and a single infrastructure-building artifacts be enough?

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ivra
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Re: Checking for interest in a new SG

Post by ivra » Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:12 pm

BlueTemplar wrote:Are these requirements really necessary?
Wouldn't the restriction of only having a single terraforming and a single infrastructure-building artifacts be enough?

There is a difference. If we are allowed to colonize as many planets as we like we can grow population on them (while Trade is set to 100% to prevent them from developing). Thus it will be quicker to develop them once we get around to them, since they have a higher population. Another aspect is that it is easier to save infrastructure on destroyed enemy colonies since we could just colonized everything. Now we can only have two colonies under development and might be in a situation where the captured enemy colony loses a lot of infrastructure before we are able to colonize it.
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

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