SotS1-SG15

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ZedF
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Re: SotS1-SG15

Post by ZedF » Tue May 20, 2014 9:02 pm

ZedF wrote:
Since basic Stutterwarp range is 6, our max trade range is double that.

I didn't know that. So that is how the number of trade worlds per colony is determined. Good to know.

I do know trade range for certain does goes up as you get better drives. The doubling is not 100% confirmed but it fits my recollection. :)

I imagine I have seen some difference. I cannot prove it or anything, but since I started using a mix of the two PDs my planet assaults seems to fare better. That is why I mixed them.

What I find makes the most difference is making sure your PD is not distracted dealing with other stuff when the planet missiles are coming in. Laser PD will regularly hit planet missiles; you just need to ensure there is enough volume of fire. Gauss PD will hit harder if it hits, but is more likely to miss, has shorter range so is less effective covering the whole formation, and gives no chances to try again. I find controlling how much PD fire I can devote to planet missiles by where I position my fleet (and by supplementing it with beam weapons) is easier than mitigating the relative inaccuracy of gauss PD.

That said, if we were going to decide as a group to use some gauss, we could do that. In that case I think the best place for it would not be to split it up left/right side as we had it in previous designs, but to use gauss PD only on the PD destroyers' hammerhead and tail mounts. We should keep laser PD in the PD destroyers' side mounts and in the UVB destroyers' tail mounts.

It is kind of hard to come up with a naming convention that works well in all cases. I have always wandered something with your naming convention. Why do you include DD in your names? Isn't kind of redundant since DE is listed in front of every DE ship in the ship list to the lower left?

1. Habit.
2. I often use similar names for cruisers/destroyers (eg. ships armed with AP drivers might be DrvDD x.yy and DrvCA x.yy) so this lets me distinguish them just by name, e.g. in the combat summary page and so forth. I don't have to look in 2 places/columns when scanning a list.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

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ZedF
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Re: SotS1-SG15

Post by ZedF » Thu May 22, 2014 11:39 am

So who would like to take some turns next? Trygvasson? Acastus?
The game is open to anyone, so whoever is interested, feel free to jump in...
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

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acastus
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Re: SotS1-SG15

Post by acastus » Thu May 22, 2014 11:04 pm

T140: Zytokot is revealed as a result of our alliance with the Hivers. It is a rock to them but nice for us. I ask the Hivers for Zytokot and they agree to give it to us. I will send a colonization fleet there.

T141: Defending Laertes against 35 Tarka. Lost 5 ships running them around since I can't brawl with them. They are too strong with their stormers. I will try to wait for stronger reinforcements.

T142: Defending Laertes against 35 Tarka. This time I sent 1 armor to the right for the Tarka to chase. Since their cnc is slow, I waited until it drifted almost to the back of their pack and sent 2 DE to intercept it. I stopped them when they were within firing distance of the cnc and took out its mission section and then ran away from the pack. The pack caught up with them so I had to use another DE as a decoy to keep up the chase. Lost 4 DEs total this time. The Tarka have 3 more cncs to take out.

T143: I'm struggling here. We have an assault fleet hitting the Tarka at Griffin at the end of this turn. Someone better at using assault shuttles should take over from here.

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ivra
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Re: SotS1-SG15

Post by ivra » Fri May 23, 2014 11:32 am

Turn 143
Increased research from nothing to get Orbital Foundries in two turns.

Battles
Anoshi: A03 Flying Fish vs. Red Zuul with 1 DE + 4 CRs. Victory, lost 3 DEs.
Peace at independent Morrigi colony at Talos.
Defending Laertes: Graybearded Cods vs. Tarkas with 35 DEs. I tried to fight them and that was a disaster. Lost 19 DEs and took out only 5 DEs (including 1 CnC). Reinforcements are coming next turn in form of A03 Electric Eels. I think you need to continue with your luring tactics acastus.
Attacking Griffin: A03 Cute Catfish vs. Tarkas with 137 DEs. Colony down, at the cost of 9 DEs.

Turn 144
There you go, acastus. Now you can continue. You made a much better job at defending Laertes than I did. I have done nothing this turn.

SotS1-SG15 T144.sav
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

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acastus
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Re: SotS1-SG15

Post by acastus » Fri May 23, 2014 11:55 pm

T144: Defending Laertes against 30 Tarka DEs. Lost 4 DEs have them chase me but managed to take out their CNC mission section. Should be only one more CNC in their fleet.
Running around at Griffin lost 6 ships but got the Tarka CNC mission section. Just hanging around Griffin to prevent the Tarka from colonizing.

T145: Orbital Foundries completed. Started Cruiser Construction.
Defending Laertes against 30 Tarka DEs. Lost 7 DEs but got their CNC and another ship. That should be their last CNC.
Lost 15 ships at Griffin but managed to destroy their CNC.

T146: Colonized Kiztac.
Defending Laertes against 28 Tarka DEs. Destroyed 13 and lost 11. The tide is turning in our favor.
Lost 3 ships at Griffin.

T147: Cruiser Construction goes overbudget.
Defending Laertes against 15 Tarka DEs. Destroyed all 15 and lost 5. The UVB reinforcements made a large difference in helping to secure the victory here.
Lost 3 ships at Griffin.

T148: Cruiser Construction completed. Starting Data Synergy.
Attacked 2 red Zuul CRs at Moshu. Destroyed the Zuul ships losing 3 DEs. Helping the Hivers out here with their gate arriving soon.
Lost 3 ships at Griffin.

T149: Colonized Zo'trak and Syrma.
Lost 3 ships at Griffin.

T150: Data Synergy completed. Started Polysilicate Alloys.
Lost 3 ships at Griffin.

T151: Polysilicate Alloys goes overbudget. Laertes is fully developed.
Lost 2 ships at Griffin.
Lost 1 DE at Serenity to VN.

T152: Polysilicate Alloys completed. Started Salvage Technology. Colonized Zytokot.
Lost 1 ship at Griffin.

T153: Salvage Technology completed. Started Asteroid mining. 11 Tarka ships inbound to Morrigi colony Winath in 10 turns. We should probably help them out.
Lost 1 ship at Griffin.

T154: Lost 1 ship at Griffin.

T155: Colonized Errai.

ZedF
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Re: SotS1-SG15

Post by ZedF » Sat May 24, 2014 10:57 pm

We're almost ready to go into a mostly conquest-oriented mode, it sounds like. We just need a couple more things first.

- We should finish asteroid mining, since we started it.
- We should get Biomes next. There are plenty of colonies we could found using those. Our income isn't enough yet to support a full cruiser-based navy so we're going to need them.
- Following upon Biomes, we should get Deep Scan so we have more notice of incoming attacks and can better observe the progress of our rivals.
- We should get Fusion and Improved Stutterwarp after that, so our ships don't need 5 turns just to travel to a neighboring star.
- After that, better weapons and defenses would be a good idea.

I'd advise minimizing construction of cruisers to just necessary specialty ships such as Strikeforce CnC and Repair ships, prior to the discovery of Improved Stutterwarp. Cruisers are expensive to maintain and ones that only go 3 LY/turn are not an efficient use of funds. In the meantime we can continue developing our trade network as there are still lots of routes that could be opened and filled.

A couple more notes from looking at the save:
- I was under the impression we were NOT supposed to be asking our allies for aid this game. Trygvasson specifically requested that we avoid doing so and, to be honest, we are in first place and don't need the help.
- I'm not sure what the point is for support ships to be using cheap gauss guns but expensive hammerhead sections rather than standard command. (Ideally we want deep scan on these ships anyway.)
- For our combat cruisers, remember that Liir have a surfeit of small mounts. Not all of these should be PD; we don't have enough punch without using some of them for offensive weapons. That's the whole advantage of using beamers.
- Some of our fleets doing guard duty in random parts of the map should be moved somewhere more useful. Especially, but not limited to, A03 Flying Fish (needs to go back to base for repairs), and A03 Shuttles 01 / 02 (should go toward Zuul territory, where we plan to attack in the future.)
- Do keep an eye on the red Zuul to ensure they aren't continuing to encroach on our back lines where we are going to be planting new and vulnerable colonies soon.

Who's up next? Tryg? Ivra?
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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ivra
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Re: SotS1-SG15

Post by ivra » Sun May 25, 2014 8:16 am

I cannot play today, but I can Monday or Tuesday.
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

Trygvasson
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Re: SotS1-SG15

Post by Trygvasson » Sun May 25, 2014 9:10 pm

My turn :)

OK one quick look at this map and the remaining question is when or how are we going to win this. We're definately going into conquest mode soon... Updates forthcoming.
Brute force. If it's not working, you're not using enough.

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Re: SotS1-SG15

Post by Trygvasson » Mon May 26, 2014 4:51 am

155:
- redesigning some ship models for efficiency. Zed, a further refinement on your designation structure: small turret weapons in minuscules.
- current fleet maintenance is heavy, curtailing production
- our allies have been very nice to us, giving us money and research. I decide to be nice right back at them - transferring 500K to the Hivers next turn.
- we have a huge, underdeveloped trade network - time to put some money into trading!
- retreating the scout from Talos to deep space - Morrigi is now an ally, and we dominate the map.

156:
- "ZuulBane" has enough PD to withstand a size 10 homeworld with MW missiles, but quite incapable of standing up to a cruiser-sized Zuul defense force. Got a couple of shuttles in by sacrificing a DD, took out an MD platform, no losses. Shuttles are OK, so will repeat next turn - 36M Zuul are dead.
- Asteroid Mining completed, thanks to our Hiver allies mostly
- sending Daring Dogfish with shuttles to be able to attack Ilmatar - it's a size 9 world, and the Zuul are way to tough to go slugging against
- autoresolved Hiver defense of Anoshi, Hivers made short work of the Zuul.
- took out 27 Tarkas at Griffin, no losses.
- Sprinting Biological Transfer

157:
- Vazkor: 69M less Zuul 1 DD and 2 platforms, for the loss of a destroyer and a shuttle(just the shuttle, not the DD). Once the planet is out and a Repair ship is present, I'll start fighting those Zuul cruisers...
- Griffin: 36 Tarka down, no losses. It's a UVB turkey shoot.
- building freighters

158:
- Vazkor: 25M less Zuul, 2 platforms, no losses. Zuul now have 57 ships there, inc 15 cruisers
- Griffin: 41 Tarka DDs destroyed, 5 to go. Lost a DD to a tanker explosion
- building freighters ad infinitum
- while I feel there isn't much strategy left in this game, it was fun to master the shuttle dance :-D This time the timer went out with the first Zuul cruiser plasma cannon broadside in mid-air. They actually stopped following the bait once my main force was within visual of the target(hence no losses).
- 162 lizards incoming, bound for Ke'kaldo. Since we have a 50+ strong defense fleet in the cluster, I anticipate another turkey shoot - but this time with missiles as well. And we have 6 turns to prepare. Ha, I'm the one who put the picket there, clever me.
- why are we naming our fleet after fish, anyway? The Liir resemlance to dolphins - no gills, anyway - indicate they're mammals, and they probably eat fish. Fish fleet names would be like if we called the Pacific Fleet something like 'Taco Bell Navy' or 'The Attacking Corn Flakes Squadron'. I like 'ZuulBane' better - just wish I had a couple more shuttles in it...

159:
- Vazkor: 21M dead Zuul, 2 LD's for one DD lost.
- Griffin: all Tarka dead, except one LD remaining.
- Research project! 'The Omus Plan' is being researched by a crack team of experts

160:
- Bio Transfer completed. Fusion is 11 turns at max now, sprinting to 50%.
- Colonizing Griffin, sending fleet towards Tarka space once it's refuelled
- Building biomes for Furud and Bomono
- Attacking Procyon, having supplemented the fleet with some shuttles
- Vazkor: 67M Zuul, 2 LD's, one DD lost. Sound familiar?

161: I'll have to leave it here, work coming my way shortly and no time for the next couple of days
- Incoming Tarka towards Griffin, uncoordinated fleets 4-5-6 turns out.
- Vazkor: got 97M Zuul this time :twisted: quite happy with that result. We now have numerical advantage - Jagged Perch just arrived. 87M Zuul left, should be done in a couple of turns...
- sending out Biomes to Furud and Bomono. We should build more, they're a very efficient way of terraforming.
Brute force. If it's not working, you're not using enough.

Trygvasson
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Re: SotS1-SG15

Post by Trygvasson » Mon May 26, 2014 4:56 am

Oh, and yes I spent all our money. We're getting enough morale boost from maxing trade now, don't we?
Brute force. If it's not working, you're not using enough.

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ivra
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Re: SotS1-SG15

Post by ivra » Mon May 26, 2014 6:31 am

I'll take some turns now.

Trygvasson wrote:- why are we naming our fleet after fish, anyway? The Liir resemblance to dolphins - no gills, anyway - indicate they're mammals, and they probably eat fish. Fish fleet names would be like if we called the Pacific Fleet something like 'Taco Bell Navy' or 'The Attacking Corn Flakes Squadron'. I like 'ZuulBane' better - just wish I had a couple more shuttles in it...

I did that. I just picked a theme and stuck with it. The point is to name our combat fleets (ideally starting with A) to be easily found and identified in the fleet list. I do not care what they are named, so feel free to rename them all :)
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

Trygvasson
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Re: SotS1-SG15

Post by Trygvasson » Mon May 26, 2014 8:31 am

Nono, it's fine, I do the same but I'm more prosaic about it, with names like 'Destroyer Squadron 3' and 'Strikeforce 7'. Those DD's are cannon fodder anyway, so might as well name them after dolphin food :-D

Now my fellow players; can I please have your esteemed thoughts about the gameplay :) Feedback from you guys is the reason this micromanaging hell of a scenario is any fun!

Apart from the 500K I felt like giving back to the Hivers, I've put most of our income into freighters and maxing pre-50% research. The debate is really how much to slow down research after capping 50%, I put it at 1/4 of disposable income. Things to consider is we're catching up on tech, and need money to build freighters.

I considered Heavy Combat Lasers or Atmospheric Adaptation before going for Fusion - HCL is low dps, but gives a nice hit point boost, and a Liirian cruiser can sport five of the heavy beams. Combined with their stellar directional stability it may actually be a good Zuul-cruiser killer weapon. Atmo Adaptation lost out to the possibility of throwing Biomes at the CH problem.
Brute force. If it's not working, you're not using enough.

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Re: SotS1-SG15

Post by ZedF » Mon May 26, 2014 11:07 am

1/4 research post 50% mark is fine with me.

Morale from trading is ok providing we are indeed able to max out trade routes everywhere, but I like to preserve I/O for building freighters so I only max out trade routes once I have close to enough freighters built to fill all the routes. I don't consider maintaining a $1M bank balance to be a hardship, especially once income is sufficient that it only takes a turn or two to save up that much money. Once we have Fusion we'll be able to build police ships everywhere, which will make the question moot in any case.

Atmospheric Adaptation before Fusion would be fine, especially if we have >600 CH worlds we will want to grab. More terraforming and faster growth on worlds we've landed Biomes on would be a good deal.

For HCL, I would be inclined to wait until after Fusion/ImpStutter, again because slow cruisers are inefficient. As far as ship sections when we do get HCL go, I like BB for the improved resilience on the command section, but would pass on Blazer until we get Lancers; HCL just don't pack enough punch to justify throwing away all the medium turrets.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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ivra
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Re: SotS1-SG15

Post by ivra » Mon May 26, 2014 2:01 pm

Turn 161
I decided to put our bank reserves above 1 million again since not all of our colonies have trade routes. As the master of garrisons, I looked over them and fixed them where necessary.

Battles
Attacking Vazkor: A03 ZuulBane vs. Pink Zuul with 42 DEs + 15 CRs + 7 LDs + 2 MDs. I decided to take on the Zuul cruisers. I took out 9 of them and lost 6 CRs and 3 LDs.
VN showed up at Grayson. A rock where we have a single ER. Auto resolved and lost the ER.

Turn 162
I decided to build 2 CR CnC ships and medium platforms at Ke'Kaldo before the 162 strong Tarka fleet arrives.

Battles
Attacking Vazkor: A03 ZuulBane vs. Pink Zuul with 42 DEs + 6 CRs + 9 LDs + 2 MDs. Took out 2 CRs and 24 DEs, lost 2 CRs and 2 DEs.
Defending Morrigi colony at Winath from 11 Tarka DEs. Morrigi has 84DEs, we have 5 CRs. Managed to take out a Tarka ship while the Morrigi watched, so we got some goodwill points.
Taking out a single Tarka DE at Gla (a rock) using AR.
Ouch at Griffin: A VN Berserker appeared. I guess the Tarka took out a VN Mothership some time ago, and now VN is out for revenge. Only thing is, the management of the colony has changed since that. The VN government should really read the memos they receive before launching an attack... Well, let's hope A03 Cute Catfish performs remarkably well! It has 85 DEs + 14 CRs. Well, they did not. Lost 33 ships and managed to take out one or two of the drones... The colony fell.

Turn 163
Building biome at Bolovax Nik to reestablish Griffin. Building the rest of the MDs at Ke'Kaldo. There is too much building going on, so it is taking a long time to get Fusion to 50%.

Battles
Attacking Ilmatar: A03 Daring Dogfish vs. Red Zuul with 30 DEs + 14 CRs. Took out 7 CRs, lost 23 DEs + 1 CR. I guess I have to try to sneak in the assault shuttles next turn. It is a pain to do with Liir and not much fun, but I'll try. I like head-on battles much more.
Attacking Vazkor: A03 ZuulBane vs. Pink Zuul with 18 DEs + 4 CRs + 10 LDs + 2 MDs. Took out 4 CRs + 14 DEs, lost 1 DE. Only 4 DEs + the sats to go.
Report for Manticore is accurate: There is still an Alien Wreckage there...

Turn 164
Hm, the Tarka fleet of 162 ships stopped right outside Ke'Kaldo. It does not show up in the incoming fleet anymore. Well, our fleet upkeep is high, so I will send A03 Electric Eels to hunt it down. Finally, I managed to put 100% into Fusion research.

Battles
Attacking Ilmatar: A03 Daring Dogfish vs. Red Zuul with 30 DEs + 7 CRs + 10 LDs + 10 MDs. I managed to launch all 26 shuttles about halfway towards the colony, but only 1 shuttle managed to land. The 20 sats and planet missiles took them out one by one. The fleet does not have fuel to retreat and will probably be destroyed next turn. I lost 1 DE + 4 CRs to lure the Zuul ships away, and now there are only a few combat ships left + those 26 assault shuttles.
Attacking Vazkor: A03 ZuulBane vs. Pink Zuul with 4 DEs + 10 LDs + 3 MDs. I takes time to take out a colony with only 2 shuttles... 82 millions down, 154 millions to go (the colony grew its population while I took out the fleet). Now I wonder if focusing on the fleet instead of the colony was a good idea since there are 9 new ships arriving next turn, and my fleet has only one CR CnC ship left.
Our scouts at Alpha Virginis and Octans were lost to small fleets of red Zuul ships.
Attacking Procyon: A03 Blackfin Sharks vs. Red Zuul with 13 DEs + 6 CRs + 10 LDs. I did ok. Took out 6 CRs + 3 DEs, and lost only 4 DEs. Unfortunately the fleet does not have a repair ship, so I am forced to retreat to Talok. Except for two unlucky DEs that lost their engine section.
Defending Griffing from 7 Tarka ships. Used AR. No losses.
Huh :?: at deep space. The 162 strong Tarka fleet has only 12 ships? A03 Electric Eels should have no problem handling them. Victory, no losses. Hmm, I wonder. Maybe the Tarka ships went out of fuel. Then they scuttled the ships with zero fuel. Maybe that is why they stopped and why there were only 12 ships left of the fleet.

Turn 165
We need the Morrigi and Hivers to remain as allies. To prevent them from thinking of breaking the alliance I have set up at gift to each of them of 10000 credits per turn.

Battles
Attacking Ilmatar: A03 Daring Dogfish vs. Red Zuul with 30 DEs + 7 CRs + 10 LDs + 10 MDs. The result was not too bad: Took out 5 CRs + 6 DEs and lost 2 CRs + 12 DEs. Unfortunately, the CR CnC was lost. Now the fleet has only one DE CnC left and 15 assault shuttles.
Attacking Vazkor: A03 ZuulBane vs. Pink Zuul with 3 DEs + 6 CRs + 8 LDs + 3 MDs. I managed to take them all out without losing my single remaining CR CnC ship. Back to attacking the colony next turn.
Lost the two DEs without an engine at Procyon.
Defending Griffing from 6 Tarka ships using AR. No losses.

Turn 166
Nothing special.

Battles
Attacking Ilmatar: A03 Daring Dogfish vs. Red Zuul with 23 DEs + 2 CRs + 10 LDs + 10 MDs. Game over for A03 Daring Dogfish. Managed to take out only 4 DEs.
Attacking Vazkor: A03 ZuulBane vs. Pink Zuul with 8 LDs + 3 MDs. Lost 1 DE and took out 5 LDs + 1 MD + 99 million imperialists. The colony will fall next turn. This turn the Hivers let us know that they want us to attack this world, something we have been doing for quite a while now.

Turn 167
Bonomo and Furud colonized.

Battles
Attacking Vazkor: A03 ZuulBane vs. Pink Zuul with 3 LDs + 3 MDs. Finally, the colony is down.

Turn 168
Fusion at 53%, turning it down to 25%. I will not build new ships until we have Fusion and the engine, except for biomes to colonize nearby worlds. I'll build some freighters and save the money. I shut down the unused trade routes in order to be able to build freighters quicker.

Battles
Cleanup at Vazkor.

Turn 169
The biome arrived at Griffin this turn. Hopefully the colony will not have another visit by the VN Berserker.

Battles
Lost scouts at Kua'Tru and Moshu.

Turn 170
Vazkor and Griffin colonized.

Note:
The fleet A03 Blackfin Sharks has no repair ships. If you like to send it to attack Procyon you should add at least a repair ship to it. Another CnC ship + some more combat ships would probably also be needed.

SotS1-SG15 T170.sav
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

Trygvasson
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Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:00 pm

Re: SotS1-SG15

Post by Trygvasson » Mon May 26, 2014 2:56 pm

About the shuttle sneak: I feel your pain :-/ but here's what finally worked for me; send your CnC out of the way, put a single expendable DD just outside sensor range, send it to the right - keep it just outside sensor range, by looking at where it's headed in the tac grid - you can go in about two grid lines if you started up front in the fleet setup. Do the same with the rest of the fleet, including shuttles, in the other direction. Keep going left/right until the timer approaches 3 minutes, then head your decoy DD straight for the planet until you see the enemy ships start moving towards you. Flee. In the meantime, approach the planet with the rest of your force - bring at least one PD-equipped cruiser to kill any intervening sats. This gives you about a minute of pop-killing time. Took me 4 tries to get it right the first time, but after that I never had to reload.

Yes, it feels quite cheesy, as the size defensive force the AI can muster becomes irrelevant. But fun to master!


Nice work taking out those Zuul CR's, even though you took some losses - how did you cope with that volume of fire? I tried some dancing, but the Zuul just danced along... couldn't stay away from those turret-packed hammerheads, and damn they turned around quickly...
Brute force. If it's not working, you're not using enough.

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