SotS1 SG17

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ivra
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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by ivra » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:32 am

Oh, and I took the liberty to set up our fleets differently; to a more compact formation. I like to have them close together when I fight, but feel free to spread them out again if you like.
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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by ivra » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:36 am

Oops, I built the wrong spy ships at Ultara. They are halfway across the rift, but without deep scan. Maybe we should remove the old designs? Proper spy ships should probably be built and sent out to make sure we see what is crossing the rift. Another idea is to update the design of either our refinery or repair ship to include deep scan, since they have a larger range than DE deep scans.
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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by ZedF » Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:13 pm

If the Zuul don't seem to be building CnC shops then they must be stuck in panic-defense mode so good job exploiting that to hit their colonies while they lack CnC; I agree that if they have any fleets still with CnC then those fleets could still be a bit dangerous but they will definitely have problems replacing them now. Will take a look in a bit and see what can be done about Locusts, but will likely be a bit slow with my turns this time around.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by ZedF » Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:23 pm

ivra wrote:Oh, and I took the liberty to set up our fleets differently; to a more compact formation. I like to have them close together when I fight, but feel free to spread them out again if you like.

I find that if you put them too close together they incur more friendly fire and can't move in formation at any reasonable speed. That said, for DD formations I often try to spread the ships out vertically by stacking on top of one another anyway (i.e. moving different parts of formation to same location, often at flank speed), so this is really more relevant for CA formations.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

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Abyss
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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by Abyss » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:10 am

Nice job ivra. You do the warmongering quite well!

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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by ZedF » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:16 pm

Quick update: as mentioned turns are going a bit slow due to reasons, but some progress is being made and I am up to T144. I anticipate both Zuul being finished off during my turns but putting together anti-locust fleets will take some time - probably more than 10 total turns - as we need some additional tech before we can start anti-locust fleet construction. I can set some things up during my turns & the next player can take a crack at the locusts, or alternatively I can take extra turns to finish the job, you guys make the call. I'm just as happy to let someone else do it as I have killed the locusts a bunch of times already. :)
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by ZedF » Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:40 am

Ok here is where we are as of T150:

T140: Scrap some old designs, redesign SpyDD and RefineCA to avoid confusion. Contine attacking Zuul: A01 Tick Tock, A02 Dream of Stone, A04 Death Room, A05 Random Band, A08 Hopeful Audition are on the move, more Biomes under construction for continued colonization efforts. Our fleet maintenance budget is pretty high right now and we need more income; settling all these former Zuul worlds will help but will also take time to produce results. Building more freighters would help too, but it seems like we first need to finish putting down the Zuul so we can stop worrying about needing to defend against them. There's also the Locusts to consider, so most likely our maintenance costs will get worse before they get better.

Locusts are 7 turns from Poha and I don't think we can save it; we need AP drivers to have a chance vs Adamantite armour on the hive, and hopefully Disruptor shields to absorb Locust beam weapons. After Poha, Locusts should hit Zenla and Aaryn; all of these are former Zuul worlds we have just colonized or are about to colonize. Overharvest terraforming Poha at max to reduce CH and eat minerals so Locusts are less likely to split. Due to our restrictions I am not sure if we can kill Locusts in one 4 minute turn; we might need to hit it twice in succession before it can heal up by eating a planet.

Interturn - A01 Tick Tock vs. Arcturus with 20 sats, destroyed all sats while losing 1 DD, planet will go down next turn.

T141: Terraforming Bacteria completes and I turn off research for a turn due to ship construction expenses. Hopefully I'll be able to start AP Drivers next turn. A03 Massive Illusion and A06 Splendid Isolation combine to attack Altair this turn.

Interturn - 3 combats.
Altair: A03 Massive Illusion + A06 Splendid Isolation (27 CA, 22 DD) vs. 22 CAs, 9 DD, 10 sats, inclding CnC ships. Since Altair is very small (size 2) and has no asteroid belt (though it does have a moon) I opt to focus on killing the planet and avoiding the enemy fleet rather than fighting it. I think I could probably kill the fleet off with enough time and caution, but I can just as easily allow it to die on the vine after I depopulate the planet and this will cost us fewer ships. Trade 2 DDs + 1 CA for 3 CAs, 6 sats, and the planet, and we will move on next turn.
Hesperus: A02 Dream of Stone vs. 7 sats. Kill all for no losses.
Arcturus: A01 Tick Tock vs. 3 sats. Kill all for no losses, and purple is down to 2 planets left.

T142: A02 Drean of Stone, A07 License to Sing, A04 Death Room, A03 Massive Illusion, A06 Splendid Isolation on the move to finish off purple. A05 Random Band attacks red at Shandor. Mostly done building ships for the moment (with some exceptions) so we turn on 100% research on AP drivers, due in 4.

Interturn - 3 combats.
Shoni: A04 Death Room vs. 9 CAs, 6 DDs, 20 sats. No enemy CnC present. Kill 7 CAs + 5 DDs + 6 sats for the loss of 1 DD.
Hyrakius: A02 Drean of Stone + A07 License to Sing vs. 11 CAs, 41 DDs, 10 sats, including CnC. Kill 8 CA + 31 DD for the loss of 3 CA.
Shandor: A05 Random Band vs. 6 DDs. Kill 6 colonizers + baby planet.

T143: Continue push against the Zuul. A08 Hopeful Audition attacks last red Zuul planet, guarded by an AM and is size 9 so might take a bit of work to reduce.

Interturn - 2 combats. I don't see a combat for A08 Hopeful Audition so it looks like red has surrendered... good news as that could have been a relatively tough final nut to crack.
Shoni: Destroy all sats, planet damaged but not taken out.
Hyrakius: Destroy all ships & all but 2 sats, planet damaged but not taken out. Zuul 15 x CA fleet arriving next turn.

T144: AP drivers at 50%, turning down funding.

Interturn: Purple Zuul surrenders.

T145: Start repositioning fleets. I don't think we need to worry too much about the Liir or Humans attacking us now that their allies are gone, and our current fleets are nearly obsolete anyway. The best use for these old ships is probably to go help our Tarka allies out. I debate keeping some back to help against the Locust for outnumbering purposes but TBH I don't think that's really necessary.

T146: Locusts will eat Poha on the interturn. No luck with AP drivers yet.

T147: Still no AP drivers.

T148: AP Drivers finally come in, start Deflectors.

Interturn: One of our DS scouts is intercepted by a Liir cruiser, runs away.

T149: Deflectors at 35%.

T150: Deflectors at 55%. Hopefully after this completes we will have access to Disruptor Shields.

Locusts are 3 turns away from Zenla, and we can't save it, but I don't think they will split there. Locusts are 9 turns away from Aaryn, and might split there, so we would prefer to try to save it. Hopefully we can do that, and I think it ought to be possible. Otherwise, if we're not sure and want to be sure we have more than enough ships on hand to fight Locusts, we should start to overharvest Aaryn and we will instead need to stop them at Baltar.

I have started building an anti-Locust fleet at Shamballa. We will need Disruptor shielded CnC, Refinery, and possibly PD ships, but for now I am building the FC/War cruisers with Heavy Drivers which will try to hide behind the PD/Refinery ships and kill the hive after the swarm ships are all dead.

In the meantime our existing mass driver fleets are arriving or have arrived on the far side of the rift, and our ally could certainly use some help as he's been getting pasted in the last few turns. We don't have any biomes for our fleets in allied territory so we'll have to use allied colonies and refining for fuel. We can probably hit poorly defended colonies with them and have no real troubles doing that, but I don't expect them to fare well when attacking substantial enemy fleets, as I expect the Liir and Humans will have enough armour to make this problematic.


So, shall I post the save or keep going and finish putting together an anti-Locust fleet?
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by Starknight » Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:51 am

Nice work! I'd say post the save, if Abyss doesn't want it I'll take a crack at the Locusts. Normally I try to have AM tech before I go after them, but I think I understand the principle well enough - Refinery bombs to take out most of the drones, then move in and hammer the mothership, right?
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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by ZedF » Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:53 pm

How exactly it works depends on what techs you have to bring to the table. Without something to keep a refinery bomb alive, you need lots of refinery bombs and outnumber bonus in order to get one into position to blow up on top of the fleetworld. I played ahead to T151; Deflectors completed and we do have Disruptor shields in our tree. The last time I defeated the Locusts with Disruptor shields (in my DATarka report here), I needed about 25 cruisers to do it - about a dozen PD cruisers, about a dozen hitters (in this case AM warhead DF rocket cruisers), a couple CnC, and a couple of refineries. The report in the link describes the battle and the general strategy I took to engaging the Locusts. Without Disruptor shields I would have needed about double the number of ships, and about 1/3 of them refineries.

It's unfortunate that AP drivers were a bit stubborn about coming in quickly this game, as I would have preferred to have gotten an earlier start on fleet construction. Given that my victory over the Locusts in DATarka relied on DF racks, which don't have any more armour penetration than heavy drivers, maybe it would have been possible to use those instead and skip the tech, but here we only have 3 heavy drivers per cruiser, whereas in that game I was playing as Tarka with 14 forward-facing AM warhead DF racks per cruiser. I'm still concerned that we might not have enough firepower to kill the fleetworld within a 4 minute timer -- and IIRC the locust fighters will reset if we don't, even if we do multiple interceptions in deep space before it can repair hull damage. The next player may have to extend the combat timer and/or take a couple reloads in order to get the job done. We certainly don't want to allow the thing to split into multiple fleetworlds.

If we want to try to stop the Locusts at Aaryn, timing will be tight to get a fleet built and in position, as the Locusts will arrive there on T159 and we don't have Disruptors yet. I think we try to get Disruptors ASAP and then just turn off research for a few turns so we can afford to build a fleet at max rate; we have plenty of high production worlds in the area so that's not an issue, though travel times to assemble the fleet might be. Aaryn is a new colony which is still maturing, but at least it's close to being done terraforming so might be able to help build ships in its own defense. As mentioned, if we allow Aaryn to fall in order to concentrate our defense at Baltar or in deep space prior to Baltar, this will give us a bit more time if needed. I don't think the Locusts will split at Aaryn but they probably will if they eat Baltar as well.

Map

Here is the save. Good luck!
Last edited by ZedF on Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by Abyss » Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:54 pm

You're up next Starknight, so it's up to you whether or not you'll take the save or allow Zed to take care of the locusts.

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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by ZedF » Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:29 am

Abyss wrote:You're up next Starknight, so it's up to you whether or not you'll take the save or allow Zed to take care of the locusts.

ZedF wrote:Players: Zed, Abyss, Starknight, Ivra

I thought Starknight thought you were up next... you did switch places last time around but did you intend that to be permanent?
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by Starknight » Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:39 am

ZedF wrote:
Abyss wrote:You're up next Starknight, so it's up to you whether or not you'll take the save or allow Zed to take care of the locusts.

ZedF wrote:Players: Zed, Abyss, Starknight, Ivra

I thought Starknight thought you were up next... you did switch places last time around but did you intend that to be permanent?


I do have the save and have played a couple of turns; I should be able to finish up this afternoon and post results. But since you should be next in the turn order, Abyss, if you want to handle it you are welcome to do so; the stuff I've done can be considered a 'what-if' scenario. :)
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The Holy Lands - Hivers vs. the infidel Liir (and others)
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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by ZedF » Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:58 am

If you've played turns, then go ahead and finish up Starknight. I just need to know if you guys are swapping permanently, in which case I will update the player roster accordingly.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by Abyss » Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:05 pm

I was under the impression we were still doing the original order, so go ahead and finish up your turns Starknigtht, and then I'll take my set.

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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by Starknight » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:01 pm

Turn 151:
Following the plan. Nothing changed from ZedF's settings.

IT:
Wester, Xhubasos - peace with indies

Mitrou - VN probe. VN team stands ground, shoots down probes, mothership unharmed.

Turn 152:
Disruptor Shield at 43%. Turn research spending back to 3 turns, hope for a breakthrough but should still have enough time and this will let us build cash to get the ships together.

A05 Random Band and A08 Hopeful Audition arrive at Barnard's Star. Now to start taking some pressure off our ally. Hopeful Audition is sent towards the homeworld of the Humans - but will likely divert next turn to strike either Down or Aldebaran. A05 Random Band is sent to attack Zeta Reticuli, the closest Liir world.

On the other front, refining operations at Wiira are complete as all tanks are full. A01 Tick Tock and A02 Dream of Stone are sent towards Uursh, with the intention being to split them off to attack Buunen and Ushoba next turn. Na'may'shu has 43 ships, with 2 more CRs incoming; could be a tough nut to crack, but we'll try it with A03 Massive Illusion, A04 Death Room, and A07 License to Sing. Egoun only has 5 ships, so A06 Splendid Isolation is sent there.

Gonna be a lotta combat this time...

IT:
Wester, Xhubasos - peace

Zeta Reticuli - our 8 DEs, 11 CRs vs. 2 DEs, 7 CRs, 20 sats and a colony. One Liir CR in the initial wave has a Deflector Shield. The enemy ships are destroyed, some sats and damage to the world, but it's costly. The Liir are using War Quoits, but it's the Emitters and Fusion Cannon that are the real killers. Still, it was good to take out those Assimilation Plague Biowar ships. 5 CRs, 1 DE, 3 sats and a bit over 1/4 the population killed for a loss of 4 CRs, 6 DEs.

Na'may'shu - our 38 DEs, 30 CRs vs 39 DEs, 6 CRs, 17 sats and a colony. Might have sent in too much force on this one... There was only one CNC, and it goes down in the first wave. We pound the remaining DEs as they arrive in dribs and drabs while we're attacking the planet. 2 CRs, 2 DEs lost to take out 25 DEs, 1 CR, and about 2/3 of the population.

Zenla - Locusts hit our world and eat it.

Egoun - Our 12 DEs, 10 CRs vs. 3 DEs, 2 CRs for the Liir. One CR and one DE run, we kill the others, and then they return while we're attacking the planet - all ships down, we lose 2 DEs. About 2/3 of the population down.

Ka'Trothu - a single Liir CR probes our ally's world.

Turn 153:
The Liir have made no move to reinforce Uursh - on the contrary, ships are leaving it. A02 Dream of Stone is redirected to Ka'Konum to answer a request for assistance from our ally. They'll arrive 2 turns before the Liir strikeforce we've detected heading that way. A01 Tick Tock stays on course for Uursh.

A08 Hopeful Audition changes course to strike Down. A07 License to Sing is sent to raid Ushoba. A05 Random Band is retreated to Barnard's Star to back up our ally in case of an attack.

IT:
Wester, Xhubasos - peace

Down - no enemy ships detected... the baby colony is destroyed quickly. No losses.

Na'may'shu - 24 DEs, 18 CRs vs. 16 DEs, 2 CRs, 12 sats and the planet. 3 DEs lost to take out 14 DEs, 3 LDs, 2 MDs and obliterating the colony.

Egoun - 10 DEs, 10 CRs vs. the planet. Colony destroyed, no losses.

Ko'Velan - our ally strikes the Liir with 20 CRs.

Turn 154:
Locusts due at Aaryn in 6 turns. Fleet on the way to recolonize Zenla. Still no Disruptor Shields.

A08 Hopeful Audition sent to Excalibur to resupply, then will strike at Isis. 2 more Liir CRs incoming to Na'may'shu; fleets will linger to destroy enemy vessels and clear satellites. 3 ships incoming to Egoun, which is cleared; wait to destroy them.

A01 Tick Tock failed to reach Uursh, and the Liir have 18 ships incoming to reinforce. Redirect to Trantor.

IT:
Wester, Xhubasos - peace

Trantor - no enemy ships detected going in. Young colony, destroyed with no losses.

Ushoba - 12 DEs, 10 CRs vs. 3 DEs, 2 CRs, 15 sats and the planet. Fusion projectors on the CRs as well as Positron Beams. No ships lost, all enemy ships destroyed as well as 2 LDs and minor damage to the planet.

Na'may'shu - 21 DEs, 18 CRs vs. 2 DEs, 3 CRs, and 7 sats. One each DE and CR lost to clear all enemies.

Egoun - 10 DEs, 10 CRs vs. 3 CRs. The brief glimpse I got of them looked to be colony ships; AR next round to remove as I couldn't catch them. (One had Interceptor Missiles, which quickly killed the drones from the CNC.)

Ko'Velan - Our ally still has 14 CRs (some damaged) vs. 5 CRs, 20 sats, and the planet.

Turn 155:
4 enemy incoming to Ushoba; we're staying to kill the colony, no problem with a few ships. Disruptor Shield overbudget - max research. Fleets at Na'may'shu sent back to Wiira to refuel.

IT:
Wester, Xhubasos - peace

Ushoba - 12 DEs, 10 CRs vs. 4 CRs (Biomes), 17 sats, and the planet. 2 DEs and 1 CA lost to kill all ships, 4 LDs, 2 MDs and do about 1/3 damage to the planet.

Egoun - AR to remove the enemy Biomes. We lose one DE.

Turn 156:
A07 License to Sing retreats to Wiira; too much damage to repair and 9 enemy CRs incoming. A06 Splendid Isolation also falls back on Wiira; need to reorganize fleets.

I design the CNCDisCA 2.04 - Judas Priest and the PDDisCA 2.04 - Bad Company to spearhead the anti-Locust effort. Ships are ordered... looking a little thin on the numbers front here, at least to be able to get them to Aaryn in time. Still, I'll try and do what I can. Aaryn is building the Refineries and has overharvest on max; Shamballa has overharvest on as well, but only needs it for 2 turns.

IT:
Wester, Xhubasos - peace

Turn 157:
A08 Hopeful Audition sent off to strike at Isis.

IT:
Wester, Xhubasos - peace

Isis - 9 DEs, 11 CRs vs. 12 CRs and the human colony. Wipe the colony and about half the human ships, lose most of the fleet. One CNCCA survives to flee.

Ka'Konum - 11 DEs, 10 CRs plus our ally's 1 DE, 19 CRs, 20 sats and colony vs. 1 DE, 10 CRs of the Liir. Let's hope we can get into position to stop biomissiles or that our ally has good PD. Luckily, we come in just to the side of the Liir but getting tangled up with them exposes us to Fusion Projectors, Phaser, Positron Beams - we lose 3 CAs and 1 DE but all the Liir ships are destroyed.

Turn 158:
Ships built for the first attempt at stopping the Locusts are dispatched. Forces will be: 4 CNC, 5 PD, 9 WarCA, 5 Refineries. Hopefully it will be enough. Just in case, though, more ships are ordered.

Fleets are ordered back to Ushoba to try and weaken the Liir.

IT:
Wester, Xhubasos - peace

Barnard's Star - raiders strike. AR to assist our ally.

Turn 159:
Order up more ships. Here come the Locusts.

IT:
Wester, Xhubasos - peace

Aaryn - fail to stop the Locusts, but the fleet fares better than I expected.

Ushoba - the Liir have AM and probably better armor tech than we have. Unable to make a scratch, I have to sacrifice some ships to retreat the rest.

Turn 160:
The remaining ships from the Locust attempt retreat to Shamballa. More ships are being built there, at Baltar, and at Parvati. (More Refineries will be needed, though; I didn't order that many yet.) I max research for Neutronium Rounds; hopefully we can get a breakthrough.

Since this is a normal breakpoint, I'll go ahead and end my turns here. Good luck, Abyss!
My Morrigi fleet-speed calculator for SotS Prime
The Holy Lands - Hivers vs. the infidel Liir (and others)
Currently working on getting my board game Dragon Raiders into final condition before going to Kickstarter...

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