*Spoiler* Tactics Discussion: Dealing with the L----- S----

Tactics and Action Reports.
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igotsmeakabob!!
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*Spoiler* Tactics Discussion: Dealing with the L----- S----

Post by igotsmeakabob!! » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:22 pm

Some of you may know that, currently (its probably a bug), if you auto-resolve a Locust attack on your planet it likely won't lose its resources, the thing will just move on.
But if you're like me, you love hunting down and killing those Grand Menaces. Let's say you want to kill it.

Alright, we're looking for some tried and true tactics of dealing with this most difficult threat, as well as their odd behaviors... I haven't actually destroyed one yet. I've encountered one and... damn. Tougher than a SK for my Liir. It may have been because I (for the first game ever) didn't get PD Phasers, but I had alot of trouble doing damage to the Locust hive. My first attack consisted of 5 Strikeforce CnC's and 100 Armor destroyers. Antimatter, Flicker Warp, Hammerhead on the Armors, along with pulse phasers and antimatter cannon.

The battle did not go well. I lost the whole fleet, including my 12 support ships (4 refineries and 8 RnS ships). The hive continually spat out ships, I figured that engaging the huge swarm would be useless. I went for the hive... and never had it within range with most of my destroyers. Boom.

Damn. Alright, new tactic. Since my ships couldn't make it to the hive, I should try a combination of AM Projector cruisers and exploding AM Torpedo destroyers. Right. Four turns later I have my 30 cruisers and 70 destroyers. Attack!

Alright... we lost. But we went down swinging. I tried staying at a range with my destroyers and sending the cruisers through the swarm at the hive... it worked pretty well, but the thing took so much punishment... I couldn't destroy it before my fleet was wiped. After taking 94k damage the Locust hive is on fire and in the red, but my fleet is gone. I can only hope that it doesn't repair.

Four turns later, it's in the green. Sigh.


Tactics? Well a research would seem to be in order... the locusts appear to be using beams. Meson Shields? We can only hope. Absorbers? Maybe.

Has anyone tried using Meson shields against them? Do they work?


Still, I had fun trying to kill it... even if it did cost me more than 50 million credits/dollars/monetary units.
-I play Liir. What can I say, I'm a blaspheming rebel.
-Don't put your trust in revolutions. They always come around again. That's why they're called revolutions. People die, and nothing changes.
-Civilization is like a herd of pigs. The herd brings many benefits, but no one should wonder at all the sh*t.
-How do they rise up?

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erdrik
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Post by erdrik » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:38 pm

I've used Meson. They last a long time but will eventualy fall.
Given enough ships mesons are a sure bet.

ZedF
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Post by ZedF » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:55 pm

Posts that I've seen so far that describe successful tactics:
- Lots and lots of ships armed with energy absorbers, phasers and PD phasers
- Meson shields (expect some casualties but they do work with enough ships)
- Improved Cloaking (same deal as Meson shields)
- AoE denial missiles (acid/nano) seem to help vs the locusts
- Heavy beams and projectors seem to work well vs. the fleetworld

Things that don't work:
- Ballistics in general, as the locust fleetworld is heavily armoured. This includes DF racks. Heavy AP drivers will probably get some licks in but energy weapons are better against this opponent.
- Node cannon will probably crash the game if used against the fleetworld.
- Acid/nano missiles might crash when used against the fleetworld as well?

Other ideas that I've not seen posted but might work:
- Even regular cloak might be enough to let you sucker the little swarmers far away from the mothership while a few heavy beam cruisers get in close enough to unload
- Having heard that laser PD bounces and not having access to phasers/PD phasers/pulse phasers yet, I plan to try gauss PD to deal with the locusts; while the mothership may be heavily armoured, I'm hoping the locusts are not.
Last edited by ZedF on Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

krak
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Post by krak » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:58 pm

Dreadnaughts with battle bridges, barrage sections and lancers seem to be effective. I was almost able to kill one with just 3 of theses dreadnaughts, it had lots of holes in it and was on fire everrywhere, but no joy. 1 or 2 more dreads would have done the trick.

Its best to intercept it at a neutral planet, that way the mothership starts off almost in firing range, rather than far away if you were to fight it at one of your planets. Plus if you lose, you just lose the fleet and no resources.

EDIT:
- Having heard that laser PD bounces and not having access to phasers/PD phasers/pulse phasers yet, I plan to try gauss PD to deal with the locusts; while the mothership may be heavily armoured, I'm hoping the locusts are not.


Gauss PD does work, very well too. Not as well as phaser PD but they do take out the locusts

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Post by Dark Nutter » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:12 pm

Posted it in another thread, improved cloak+Heavy AM + AM projector is the best way to go, i didnt even bother mounting Pd (would have helped, post world destruction). I forgot if i was using adamantium Cruisers thou. I tend to mod full trees for the races if i want a interesting game(also go 200% random + normal/hard diff). Havent tried using shields or anything, only ran into one of those suckers so far, and i intercepted it in empty space. only took a couple minutes once i realised i should target the world not the ships. Also the fleet i used was under a dozen ships at launch, think i only lost some of them.

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Post by Boomer » Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:30 am

Don't have BoB yet, but does the hive move? Would a Siege Driver DN be effective? Sure, it's overkill if a dozen imp cloak + Heavy AM + AM Projector Cruisers will take it out, but how often do yo get to shoot anything besides planets with asteroids?
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Post by igotsmeakabob!! » Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:08 am

It doesn't often move, but it can. It also has a funny disco-ball attack that fires beams out at a ton of angles, but that is only used if you get close to it.
-I play Liir. What can I say, I'm a blaspheming rebel.
-Don't put your trust in revolutions. They always come around again. That's why they're called revolutions. People die, and nothing changes.
-Civilization is like a herd of pigs. The herd brings many benefits, but no one should wonder at all the sh*t.
-How do they rise up?

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erdrik
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Post by erdrik » Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:31 am

I think Absorber DNs would be good too, tho I have yet to try it.

m007368
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Post by m007368 » Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:50 pm

I have used Liir DN Eng Absorb/WAR/AM FLICK. I dont use PD I use alot of small/med phasers, HVY AM Cannons, Cutting Lasers(or highest equiv tech).

The energy absorbers are pretty amazing, you get almost non stop firing from a ship when more than 8 or 9 locusts are beaming it. Just be careful of the TORPS they can really slow your system down when you have hundreds of them on the screen.

krak
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Post by krak » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:26 pm

I now have 5 locust motherships rampaging through my empire. The only way I'm surviving is auto-resolve to save my planets. I'm on turn 146 and don't even have dreadnaughts yet. However, I can confirm that cloaking does not work. The locusts just surround your cloaked ships and kamakazee into them 1 by 1. I was unlucky and didn't get shields this game. :cry:

I'm going to test out the mass PD tactic.

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Post by ZedF » Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:33 pm

krak wrote:I now have 5 locust motherships rampaging through my empire. The only way I'm surviving is auto-resolve to save my planets. I'm on turn 146 and don't even have dreadnaughts yet. However, I can confirm that cloaking does not work. The locusts just surround your cloaked ships and kamakazee into them 1 by 1. I was unlucky and didn't get shields this game. :cry:

I'm going to test out the mass PD tactic.

Were the locusts on the way to the planet when they dived in and your ships happened to be in the way? Or did they seem to intentionally surround your ships and dive in? What happens if you have some cloaked ships and some not-cloaked ships?

It sounds like the cloak prevents them from using their beams or at least from using their beams accurately; if you have improved cloak you can shoot down the kamikaze locusts with PD before they can ram your ships. Does that sound accurate?

Since the point of regular cloak is to hide the ships until they get close enough to the fleetworld to hit it, that point might not matter so much in the case where you're doing a deep space intercept and thus will start fairly close to it anyway. So perhaps deepspace intercept + PD is good enough, with sufficient PD, firepower, and reinforcements.

krak
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Post by krak » Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:22 pm

ZedF wrote:
Were the locusts on the way to the planet when they dived in and your ships happened to be in the way? Or did they seem to intentionally surround your ships and dive in? What happens if you have some cloaked ships and some not-cloaked ships?


The locust always new where my cloaked ships were, I first intercepted them at a neutral planet so I wouldn't lose resources if I lost. They came straight for my cloaked ships and surrounded them. A few seconds later (10-15) they started to kamakazee my ships. Usually the cloak section blew up after the first 4 or 5, then the ship would get owned by the lasers. I haven't tested out improved cloak though.

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erdrik
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Post by erdrik » Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:08 am

krak wrote:
ZedF wrote:
Were the locusts on the way to the planet when they dived in and your ships happened to be in the way? Or did they seem to intentionally surround your ships and dive in? What happens if you have some cloaked ships and some not-cloaked ships?


The locust always new where my cloaked ships were, I first intercepted them at a neutral planet so I wouldn't lose resources if I lost. They came straight for my cloaked ships and surrounded them. A few seconds later (10-15) they started to kamakazee my ships. Usually the cloak section blew up after the first 4 or 5, then the ship would get owned by the lasers. I haven't tested out improved cloak though.


... Umm you did turn cloaking on, right?

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igotsmeakabob!!
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Post by igotsmeakabob!! » Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:32 am

I think that if he didn't turn it on they would've shot at them.



The Meson Shield tactic worked great. I lost about 6 cruisers but the rest took that thing out.
-I play Liir. What can I say, I'm a blaspheming rebel.
-Don't put your trust in revolutions. They always come around again. That's why they're called revolutions. People die, and nothing changes.
-Civilization is like a herd of pigs. The herd brings many benefits, but no one should wonder at all the sh*t.
-How do they rise up?

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Post by DaNuker » Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:04 am

erdrik wrote:
krak wrote:
ZedF wrote:... Umm you did turn cloaking on, right?


I have tried this tactic before and it is true: Even if cloaking is turned know, the small Locust ships will swarm around your cloaked ships, but they won't shoot at it. They will follow it around and eventually the ship will be destroyed for some reason (I never saw them TOUCH or shoot the ship to be honest).

I've also confirmed 5 times that launching many (> 6) Nanite missiles straight at the Fleetworld causes BoB to crash on my PC all 5 times. You can use them freely against the Locust ships though.

Back to the topic of killing them; what is the best MID-TECH solution of getting rid of these things? Twice they have shown up just after Turn 100 and playing as Zuul, I was totally shafted in the Tech Tree department for options to throw against them.

At least with the SK you have the option of deploying fairly early game Deflectors or if you're really desperate Wild Weasel sections against it, and not to mention the fact that the SK doesn't reproduce and it will eventually leave unlike Locusts.

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