Shield Breaker too effective?

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Mesaia
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Re: Shield Breaker too effective?

Post by Mesaia » Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:30 am

You don't need a CNC on the field to share the sensor info from a DS (or any other ship). You need the Integrated Sensor tech.

Warcat
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Re: Shield Breaker too effective?

Post by Warcat » Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:35 am

DS alone cannot do very much against cloaked vessels without Adv CnC.
Try to target a (spotted) cloaked ship in battle mode...

Edit: ehm sorry. It's morning... Spotted cloaked vessel are visible in battle mode... Ignore my post please :oops:

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Profound_Darkness
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Re: Shield Breaker too effective?

Post by Profound_Darkness » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:45 pm

I myself have long thought of PD missiles as a hard counter to drones but I am changing my mind... The process went like this:

I had heavy drones (phasers) and so the AI (Hivers) countered with PD Missiles, 100%, every small slot. I initially thought 'great, drones useless' and started working on a new design when I remembered seeing how good a cloaked PD DE worked when parked in close to a PD Missile firing ship in a previous game. I went back to light drones (Morrigi) and gave 2 of the light slots Pulsed Phasors (honestly was a toss up between that and UV beamers, I like the former sound better en-mass) and the middle slot a phaser point defense.

After a while of being completely ineffective the AI started fielding mixed PD ships. Yes, the best counter to my drones was now a mixture of PD, mostly laser but I don't think it noticed gauss was doing a bit better to my eyes. Yes I still loose drones to PD missiles but I loose more to accumulated damage from PD.

This got me thinking about PD Phasers as a hard counter and I realized something. If you time your drone launches with a good sized missile strike and RECALL the drones after they have taken some damage from PD Phasers you might be on to something. Sure it's a little more work on your part but it might pay off too. I haven't had the chance to try this yet but I just started a game where I might.

Again - mixed weapon systems for the win. Lots of torpedoes and missiles with drones might be quite handy if you time the weapons fire right. Also lets not forget leach rounds which cause weapon recharge speeds to be reduced... The odds of a leach round seem to be about as good as shield breakers.

Also would like to note that my ships aren't covered in PD either. I actually have a fair bit of pulsed phaser fire going on from my ships. My new ships actually have a couple of PD missiles, some PD phasers, most smalls are fitted with weapons. A mixture of defenses is a good idea as I learned from the AI.
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jp161
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Re: Shield Breaker too effective?

Post by jp161 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:48 pm

Wild Weasels and DN EWAR sections attract pd-missiles.. ^^

Not sure they even do damage to the ship since they're PD weapons...

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fibio
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Re: Shield Breaker too effective?

Post by fibio » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:18 pm

PD weapons do do damage, but its a tiny amount in most cases.
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jp161
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Re: Shield Breaker too effective?

Post by jp161 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:23 pm

They were, in the beginning sure... But when you have biowar ship with missiles 'safe' within it's hull and the enemy has phasor pd...

I do remember seeing a human biowar DN go boom thanks to that :P
(i was the one with phasor pd ;))

And I do remember seeing it somewhere it was chanced so that PD doesn't hurt normal ships, only pd-eligible targets.

FYI:
Normal medium-mount missile has damage of 40 (further altered with warhead techs) and fire every 32 seconds.
Interceptor PD missiles (in small slots) do 75 points of damage and fire every 3 seconds.

It wouldn't really look right for EWAR DN to die faster on pd destroyers than missileboat cruisers...

Mesaia
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Re: Shield Breaker too effective?

Post by Mesaia » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:59 am

Yup, Hold Fire and Fire at my Target and putting your drones into a weapon group works great for situations where the enemy got anti-drone weapons. Picking targets that aren't as well covered by their friendly PD is good too..

Keisari
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Re: Shield Breaker too effective?

Post by Keisari » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:39 am

Sorry to dig up a mildly old thread, but you could also think what you shield.

Instead of massing shields on every ship, shield important ships, like CnC, and leave your brawlers unshielded and use the old-fashioned hammerhead instead :D

If I play hiver, the I only shield my gates and CnC ships.
And in general I shield CnC and my drone ships. Beccause the drones are 'safe' from PD inside the shield.

That leaves the opponent thinking if it's even worth getting the shield breakers to kill off my CnC and drone carriers more easily.

Mightypeon
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Re: Shield Breaker too effective?

Post by Mightypeon » Wed May 12, 2010 9:58 am

In my opinion:

First, it depends on who is doing the countering. Number of large mounts on a cruiser can vary quite a bit :D
Howevr, the shieldbreaker does allow your non shieldbreaker parts to also counter shields, and it does so a bit more than dedicated Missle PD countering torps and drones. Also, while beeing far from high DPS, a shieldbreaker slot against non shield enemies still does more than PD missles against non Drone using enemies (btw. Drones strongly need a hard counter).

Allattar
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Re: Shield Breaker too effective?

Post by Allattar » Wed May 12, 2010 12:38 pm

Drones have some pretty hard counters already.
Early game you have guass and laser pd. Both will do at a pinch.
Emitters are of moderate use but not a hard counter.
Phasor pd is a hard counter and will wipe drones out fast.
Interceptor missiles are another massive counter, and unless you take steps to counter interceptor missiles your drones are toast.
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Inst
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Re: Shield Breaker too effective?

Post by Inst » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:34 pm

Not every race has a good chance at shield breakers, and shields are actually quite cheap as researches. It could turn out that a race rushes up to the shield breaker techs by trying to get MK1 shields or Heavy Drivers, only to find out that the Shield Driver tech isn't available. I've had games that went this way, when I went for DF racks versus Deflectors only to discover that I didn't have the research available to counter.

Even then, shield breaker rounds are short-range weapons; you need to actually get into firing range in order to use them. This means that attempts to kill the shields with drones, torpedoes, missiles, and other long-range weapons simply don't work.

That said, one large mount is relatively cheap. Not all races care about large mount weapons; the Tarka, for instance, have a low number of large mounts and frequently end up loading medium mount weapons into large mounts due to their slow research.

In actuality, the best weapon, quite often, for a medium mount is a small mount weapon, provided the small mount weapon is sufficiently efficient (Pulse Phasers (40 DPS, 33% lower than anti-matter cannon damage but is highly accurate), X-Ray Lasers) and the best weapon for a large mount is often a medium mount weapon.

The shield section itself is not a complete loss in firepower, anyways. The shield section typically means you lose 67% of your firepower on that mount. If you include the firepower from the mission section, that results in a 33% total loss of firepower, if you include the engine section, that's a 22% loss of firepower.

Besides, afaik, you can also turn off shields with just a disruptor torpedo weapon aimed to the shield.

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Unkn0wnx
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Re: Shield Breaker too effective?

Post by Unkn0wnx » Thu May 03, 2012 7:15 pm

Shield breaker? What about Meson Beam? It bypass shields and does much more damage than shield breaker. It also has longest range of all the heavy beams.
Don't forget Mesonic torpedoes. Disruptor line also nullify shields.
I think they do not need nerf. You have shields and shield counter.

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