Faction: Infinite Edge (Release v0.1-DE-AM)

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Dragonblade
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Faction: Infinite Edge (Release v0.1-DE-AM)

Post by Dragonblade » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:45 am

Next Version is available! Download here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1AEKRL6U

v0.1 Includes all destroyers and weapons available to all factions for all power tech eras, but still no cruisers.

Infinite Edge general overview
-Vertically oriented destroyers rather than horizontal. (Kind of like sideways morrigi)
-Powerful Destroyers. Particularly the spinal mount, and its larger cousin, the Battleship.
-Underarmed cruisers. (Not included in demo)
-Very good stations. (Also not included in demo)
-Very good Dreadnoughts. (Also not included in demo)
-Teleport Gate network requiring construction ships and specialized stations. (NOTE: these do not require deep space constructors or orbital complexes to build, however they do get better gatestations with orbital complexes.)
-Most ships are unable to move ftl on their own, and require Fleetcraft to transport them from one star to another, unless traveling by gate network. (Fleetcraft are built by construction ships)
-Drone ships have two kinds of drones, light and medium (heavy is available later) the light drones are very frail and have only 1 gun but they get more of them, and medium/heavy drones almost as good as morrigi drones, but only 1 per destroyer. (Note, drone ships get both kinds)
-They have a destroyer level construction ship, this is required to build fleetcraft and gatestations (Which they need to access their gate network).
-Very low chances for cloaking devices, and very few ships can use stealth armor.
-Decent-good chances for armor techs, VERY good chances for reflective armors and hardened electronics.

Weapon preferences:
-Small weapons, any and all.
-Photonic torpedo line, unguided disrupter torpedoes
-Projectile weapons
-Energy beam weapons that fit in the spinal mount.
(However, some of this isn't visible because you need cruisers to get most large weapons)

low chances for:
-missile upgrades
-plasma ball torpedoes
-plasma weapons

NOTES:
The demo is PLAYABLE not PRETTY:
-None of the models for the Infinite Edge have textures yet, and have harsh glare on the default textures.
-Many of the weapon icons are out of place.
-There are no working player colors or badges on ships.
-Many of the models are concept models, and have very simple structure, making them rather ugly. (The glare doesn't help)
-New unique sections/ships have ugly names (Eg: @sectionname_DEConstruction) and no description.
-For the most part Destroyer mission sections provide the bulk of the ship's armor/mass/cost.
-the overall cost/armor/mass/ConstructionCost is fairly arbitrary. But I tried to follow lines along those of other factions.
-The advanced fleetcraft, the Jumpdrive and Relocation versions, use the Solar Sail model, this is because those are currently just placeholders so you can see how the IE advance in ftl speeds. They will have more requirements to construct later, and will have unique models.
-The "Fargate" mobile deployable gatestation uses the same model as the "Stargate," this is just a placeholder like the above fleetcraft. It will have additional requirements to construct, as well as a unique model later.

-Advanced Fleetcraft and "Fargates" take a very, very, long time to build. this is because the DE constructor is not efficient at building later tech stuff, the CR Constructor will build them more quickly.
-Changed from previous version: most DE sections have only a single bank for small weapons, regardless of how many individual mounts they have. This is experimental balance, as the Infinite Edge have very powerful destroyers.

-There are two new techs available for anyone to research in the fusion era, Advanced Destroyer Systems, and Advanced Small Weapons. both require translate Morrigi to research. ADV SM WPN unlocks a new version of most small weapons, which are effectively 50% more powerful. ADV DE SYS unlocks a new mission section for all races:
Humans: Turreted Directfire torpedo launcher. Requires Photon Torpedo Tech
Hivers: Heavy Armor, noted for having A LOT of health.
Tarkans: Heavy Strafe, four strafe type medium weapons.
Liir: Swift Armor, has the speed of the pursuit, armor and armaments of the armor. Requires Overthrusting tech.
Zuul: Heavy Combat Laser Spinal Mount. Requires HCL type weapon (which isn't available right now, as it requires Cruiser tech.)
Infinite Edge: Destroyer Battleship, the most powerful destroyer class ship in the game, also the most expensive. Requires Spinal mount tech to build. The Infinite Edge also get engine sections with shield generators with this tech, these are very expensive, have the maneuverability/health of the previous era drives, and limited to mk3 shields or worse.

-The Infinite Edge have two lines of stardrives, the Gatestation line, and the FTL drive line. the gatestation line improves the gate network, the FTL drive line improves the speed of the fleetcraft (and later, Cruisers and Dreadnoughts)

-The Infinite Edge still uses all Morrigi avatars, badges, text, music, speech, and the miniship seen on the strategic screen. Nor do I have a titlescreen image. Also, some of the ships that were supposed to have animations do not, as I have been unable to get them to work.

Let me know if you think a ship is over/under-priced or over/under-powered or if they have ConstructionCosts that seem wrong.

Feel free to report bugs! And/or offer suggestions for fixing them.

Suggestions are welcome. While destroyer designs are (mostly) decided on, I have not completely decided on the armaments of cruisers/dreadnoughts, or what special weapons the IE will get. (you can see some discussion/suggestions further into the topic, I think starting on page 3)

IF ANYONE WANTS TO HELP TEXTURE OR MODEL, LET ME KNOW!

Known issues:
-"frozen" loading screen: when loading into a combat with a "stargate" or "Fargate" the loading screen will appear to freeze, the loading bar will stop and the rotating planet will stop. Don't be alarmed, it just takes a while to load those ships, it should resume loading normally shortly.

-spinning gatestations: when a ship or projectile weapon hits a gatestation and starts it spinning, it won't stop. this is due to how the code treats deployed gates. You can see the same behavior on hiver gateships, its just not as significant because they are much, much, smaller. I moved hiver gates closer to planets to help avoid this issue. (this makes hiver gates slightly harder to kill, but not significantly so.) (This is REALLY starting to get on my nerves...)

-Clipping firearcs: On many ships the firearcs for the command and engine sections will allow the IE ship to fire through itself. This is because the location of those sections is not static relative to the mission section, sometimes the engine is above the middle, sometimes below, sometimes the command is sideways, etc... there was no good way to avoid this problem and still retain my exotic designs.

-Overpowered defenses!: Because stargates count as stations (They take a station slot) they give an extra 5 destroyer defense platforms, these orbit the planet normally. Their DE DefPlats are also better than other factions. the main thing that makes their defense overpowered is how the AI treat gateships. ordinarily the AI will bumrush the gate and attempt to destroy it (Which is reasonable against hivers) However, gatestations have far more hitpoints than gateships usually do, as they cost much more and are harder to get as many of. This means the computer will rush the gate, ignoring your fleet and satellites, allowing you to pulverize the attacking fleet with ease.

-IMPORTANT!! Infinite Edge AI players don't work!: Because of the unusual FTL system this faction uses, the computer doesn't know how to use them with any degree of success. most ships traveling without a fleetcraft have a speed of 0.01, which will take hundreds, or thousands, of turns to reach even nearby stars! IT IS STRONGLY ADVISED you do not let the computer be assigned to morrigi. I may be able to fix this later, but for now the IE are a human-player-only faction.

-IE ships and the standing orders: The orders "close to engage" and "Pursue" don't work as well as they should. (I assume "distant harassment" has the same problem, but I never use it) Sometimes IE ships will forget about those orders and move to their destination point, acting as though they had no standing order. The cause for this is unknown.

MOD INSTALLATION:
unzip the file into a folder named /"infinite edge" or somethign into your mods folder (if you have one) and mount as normal.
general instructions for installing/mounting mods can be found here: http://sots.rorschach.net/Category:Modd ... stallation
Last edited by Dragonblade on Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:46 am, edited 5 times in total.
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SpardaSon21
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by SpardaSon21 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:50 am

Best of luck with your mod, be warned though, as any race that replaces the Zuul will still have their slow research rate, poor economy, and permanent overharvest. It is great news that you managed to combine FTL drives though.

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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Dragonblade » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:02 am

Heres the thinking: If zull can have hiver ftl, why can't hivers have zull ftl? I have not tested it yet tho... but the other guy had humans with hiver tech. for my test I used zull because they had an ftl drive which was part of what I wanted, I could have used humans or morigi if I wanted. And it might have worked... will go check if hivers can have zull ftl now...

(Wheee, I feel insane!... I have to go find some free 3d modeling program to make my destroyer)
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SpardaSon21
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by SpardaSon21 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:45 am

You wanted to be able to use Nodes as well as Gates, correct? Morrigi don't get access to Nodespace.

And judging by your successful test results, it may very well be possible to give Hivers Tunnel drives. You're still going to have to deal with the poor research rates of the Hivers though.

And if cruisers are the support ships, how about jammer and wild weasel command sections for them?

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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Dragonblade » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:12 am

Ok, i ran into a hiccup. (the first real hurdle to overcome!)

I pulled the same trick as i used before to give hivers rip bore tech and de bore ships.

Unfortunatly it wouldn't make a node path and was moving at its stl speed... so while hiver gates can go to zuul, it is not as easy to give zuul to hivers... this may prove insurmountable, but further experimentation is in order.

In the end I may have to take out the whole "create a node line" from my faction, it really is mostly unnecessary if i have ftl and gates... unfortunately I don't just want to reskin the hivers... They would still play differently becuase of how their destroyers and gates function, but it would still be a bit too same-ish for me (but on the other hand, having my own faction may just be worth the loss of the node lines)

(on a related note: has anyone else tried to give zuul ftl to another faction before? If so, did they pull it off?? Would cut down on my research and experimentation if I knew the results for sure)

I was planning some new stuff for cruisers, some of it a bit farfetched, certainly specialized missions like ECM, which would have jammer and weasels, but not scanners. and there is something I would like to see everyone get, more variety in engine secitions! Right now there is only cost to keep you from putting the best drive on everything. An idea for a new one would be: minelaying engines, slower in a fight, not as good armor, and not as much range, but has a minelayer (only 1) that way you could have minelaying fighter ships, where the mines are just a bonus rather than the main goal. Or an engine section with a drone slot (two might be a bit much, especialy for morigi and their x2 better heavy drones) I have much the same complaint with the command sections, there are defensive ones (shields, cloaks, etc: and they lose almost all of their firepower) and offensive (assault, strafe, etc) but only deep scan as support. Heres one: scout command, cloak and deep scan (Expensive! and probably unarmed), which you can only do on a de right now. Or a mini cnc, which provides 16-24 cp in case you lose your real cnc.

For now I'm not going to worry about that, as the ftl and getting blender to work are the priorities. (on that front: anyone know how to get blender to work on win 7?)

Edit: Ok, figured it out, the command prompt was complaining about python, and so I thought I needed it, blender is working, I think
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Okim
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Okim » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:02 am

I pulled the same trick as i used before to give hivers rip bore tech and de bore ships.


Data from node bore ship:

node_bore 1
nodespeed 1.75

ftlspeed .1
range 18

Without 'node_bore 1' your ship wont create any node lines.
Without 'ftlspeed' it wont enter node space and will travel using normal means.

Zuul and human depend on tech requirements in order to see node lines, travel through them, and create them (Zuul only). You can try to unlock human drive techs for hivers and see if they can see node lines. Or you can unlock farcasters to humans and check if they will be able to utilise it )))

If you were able to combine hiver and zuul ftl techs this could mean that there is possible no strict connection between race and its drives.
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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Dragonblade » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:17 am

I just made it so that humans could make node lines, using the zuul node bore ship. (copied form the hiver folder, which was copied from the zuul folder)

I also gave all factions human node tech and started a game with each, here are the results:
Morrigi, Liir, Tarka, Hiver: no node lines at all.
Zuul: no node lines, but they can obviously make their own.
humans: node lines AND could make them.
(this experiment did not test node creation with Liir, Tarka, Morrigi)

It would appear that only humans and zuul can interact with node lines in any way, and only humans can use human node lines. It must be hard coded into the system (I think humans can use node creation because their code was probably linked to somehow when they made the zuul)

But, I can still make my faction the way I wanted! From someone else's experiments I know that normal node lines can be denied humans, and I know from my own they can have node creation. Therefore, I can give them gate tech, and node creation, then deny them normal nodes! It just means my faction would overwrite humans (or zuul. but they have other problems, like no economy) which is unfortunate :(

...unless taking nodes away from them also denies them node creation... (I will also check to see if every faction can use hiver gates)

(Other progress: got blender to work, but have no experience with it, after an hour I almost had the start of my ship going, but then did something weird and got a strange formation that I couldn't delete... had to start over... :cry: Decided to take a break from it and go work on something else a bit more user friendly, my writing)
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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Dragonblade » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:55 am

confirmed: All factions can use hiver gates, if given at least the base tpgate research and a gateship.

humans CAN be denied access to node lines, but there I ran into a hiccup, they can still SEE THEM. I wouldn't care, but when creating node lines, there is a limit to the number of them than can exist connected to any world, and a limit to how many exist at once... and the already existing ones count for that. Result: rats! foiled again!

(The reason I didn't notice this before is the map I loaded started my homeworld with only 1 node line, well within the limits for # connected and existing)

So when I said factions could use multiple ftl systems I guess I meant, "Everyone can use hiver gates and their own thing."

I guess I can overwrite tarka or something, zuul would have the node line thing, but the no economy and the -10 resources a turn and the terrible research makes that a no
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Okim
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Okim » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:20 am

It would appear that only humans and zuul can interact with node lines in any way, and only humans can use human node lines.


Human can see node lines because of their drive techs. Enable these to other races and check if they can see the lines. Copy/pasting section info alone does little, you need techs that unlock these features.
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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Dragonblade » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:08 pm

thats what I did, I gave all races rip and node tech, still only humans could see the starting nodes, and only human and zuul could make them.

edit: Oops, missed part of what he said. I also removed the drive tech from humans in another experiment, and they could still see the node lines, even without the drive tech. (Although I got lucky and the game didn't crash when the starting designs didn't have engines!)

(if someone had a different result, please, let me know how you did it)

(Oh, and also I'm using 1.7.1, because steam isn't updating it yet.... although I doubt 1.7.2 would be much different)
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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Dragonblade » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:56 pm

Giving other factions hiver gate capability is ABSURDLY easy.

no, really.

heres how you do it:
go to the master tech list (TechTree/MasterTechList.TECH)
in the first section, the roots, go to the drv techs (right near the top, not hard to find, the 8th entry) and find the DRV_tpgate entry, it should look something like this:

Allow "DRV_TpGate RP:0 Human:0 Zuul:0 Hiver:100 Tarkas:0 Liir:0 Morrigi:0"

simply change the 0 after the race you want to 100. boom, suddenly you have gate tech (but no gateships! ... yet)

Be warned, this may cause you to be unable to research the fusion lvl techs, what it does is have both techs hold the same spot on the research page, and when you click on it you get one or the other, with zuul it gave me tp tech, but the zuul thing was behind it, i think i may have a solution for fusion lvl tech as well. i will test out my idea for solution and let you know.

gateships are slightly harder, but not much.
the easy way to do it would be to go into any destroyer section (it doesn't matter. say, armor.) and add

gateship true

somewhere to the file, right below cpoints is a good spot (and where it is on my gatestation) or with all the other modifiers like that (huge, autonomous, etc)
viola! The modified sections will now have the option to "deploy gate" as a hiver gateship would. during combat it will take the gate spot right in front of the planet and be immobile. your ships should be able to use the network. (you will know if it worked if after you deploy your armor section there is the little gate icon in the top status bar with your network capacity after it, as is normal for hivers)

If you want something more balanced... no, I don't have anything like that. as is the hiver gate system with normal ftl as well would be grotesquely overpowered.

(on the front of the ship I was making, I got a model made, but either its so small I can't see it, or it didn't load properly... cause I cant see it. I think I just have the section model pointer wrong...)

(WOW... I really can't do small posts can i?? :?: )
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Walmart Tango
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Walmart Tango » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:44 am

This sounds pretty cool, wanna see where you take it.
(on the front of the ship I was making, I got a model made, but either its so small I can't see it, or it didn't load properly... cause I cant see it. I think I just have the section model pointer wrong...)

Didn't load properly, almost certainly. If you're exporting via MAX at least you'd really have to be working at it to get a model that small. What setup are you using for modeling/exporting?

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SpardaSon21
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by SpardaSon21 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:19 pm

I think Dragonblade is using Blender for his modeling.

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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Dragonblade » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:15 pm

Theres a good reason for using blender over 3dsMax, IT'S FREE.

I actually did fix the problem about the model loading, I had the sections folder named Sections, and its really picky about capital letters. (had that problem with loading my mod too, in the sots file I had it trying to mount /mods instead of /Mods)

So I had my primitive model loading and shaped the way I wanted (mostly), but I've run into a handful of annoyances that refuse to be resolved. First, I cannot get it to be textured on the outside, it looks WEIRD, and yes, I told it to recalculate normals for outside. Second, and this one is the big deal, I can't get it to face front! It ends up pointing up and to the side at some weird angle, (I didn't just mix up y and z axis or anything simple) Although it did convince me to make a simple model of some arrows to figure out which way is "front, top, and right flank" so I could make models facing forwards more easily instead of guessing and getting more things that point weird ways.

I do have one question though, how do I tell how big my blender model is going to be? I found the thing that lets me mess with sizes and angles of the object (which made things a LOT easier, I was trying to drag them in circles with my mouse, hardly exact) but I don't know how the numbers relate to in game distances. for instance, destroyers are about 30 meters long (although mine are taller rather than longer, so maybe only 15 meters long) but how long is that in blender units? (if I can figure out how to load a .X file I can get those answers, it didn't work when I tried, but I'm sure I did something wrong)

More faction info I've figure out:
Making destroyers not capable of ftl and needed specialized ships is easy to approximate, just make all the DE (and maybe some CR ones too) engine sections have 0.1 range, and then normal speeds. Without any range they are useless (on strat screen) without the special ships, my basis was to have them sit in the hanger of some huge supercarrier, but thats outside of what the game can do, this is close enough. They would still have ER ships, because then the entire ship is devoted to an ftl system instead of guns and armor. If I can figure it out I'm going to have their ER ships have this big thing that folds up when combat starts, like morrigi unfolding only reversed.

Because they are so experienced at building things in space they would get discounts on the techs for deep space constructors and orbital complexes and asteroid monitors. Their gate builder would be a smaller construction ship with about 1/4 the build capability, and it would take 10ish turns to build a gate with one. Trying to build a normal station with one would take 30+ turns, really inefficient.

I'm thinking that I can make the gate stations more interesting than just a gate. Theres nothing stopping me from making "command" and "engine" sections for them, they would just be utility platforms or defensive installations. At fusion level they would get a larger gate that could have CNC or weapon platforms, and at antimatter I may give them deflectors/disruptors (thats a maybe, especially because you could take both on the same ship...) I figured out that I can use the same model for both command and engine sections, but just design them symmetrically. Implementing this is easier that it sounds. Stations DO have command and engines sections, they just have EXPLICIT ones. I can make it not explicit, and make a variant of the normal gate that isn't autonomous 1. That gives me designable stations with more variety. Also, for using the "same" section on both command and engine, just make a copy of the section and have it use the command or engine design sections, easy.

De lvl CNC ships wouldn't be as strong as other sides, meaning they would be command sections, but only 16 CP instead of 20 (having no CNC gives 12 or 10 CP, 6 DE or 2 CR) they would be called Wing Leader sections rather than squadron cnc. I'm thinking about DN scale (meaning very large, but not as powerful as a real DN) ships for real CNC ships starting at cruiser lvl.

Trying to balance this stuff may be a bit of a challenge, but thats for later, for now I'm just going to try and get a gate station model.

(About my long posts, I'm not going to even try and make them smaller, I just do this naturally, sorry guys)
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MZ0125
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by MZ0125 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:28 pm

ur idea sound very interesting, it could be real good addition to the game~

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