Faction: Infinite Edge (Release v0.1-DE-AM)

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Jagard
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Jagard » Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:56 pm

Hmm, I just double checked. Got it to load into combat both with and without the empties.

Perhaps your .shipsection file is bad. All I did was tweak a .shipsection file that I knew worked to look at your model.

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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Dragonblade » Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:55 am

I figured it out... and you'll never guess what was the problem...


It was the NAME OF THE FILE. :shock: :?: :!:


Really.

I replicated Jagard's experiment (using my model with a working shipsection) and in the process I changed the name of my .x file from DestroyerFission to IEDestoryerFission (I was testing my shipsection file with the normal model) and then my model loaded fine. So having determined that the model works I named it DestroyerFission again, and suddenly it DIDN'T work. I changed it back to IEDestroyerFission and now it does. I think that when it was loading into a combat it went into the art/sections folder and found two versions of the DestroyerFission.X file, one from my mod and one in the .gob, it couldn't decide what to do about it, and crashed.

(Note to self: Naming all sections with IE- prefixes to avoid this issue from now on)

Jagard was wrong as to what was causing the problem (but now I now a bit more about blender) but his help at least let me figure it out. Thanks Jagard! :thumbsup: I can finally get back to working on more models now.
"Truth is relative."

Jagard
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Jagard » Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:00 am

Glad to see that you got it working in spite of my assistance. :)

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SpardaSon21
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by SpardaSon21 » Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:49 am

Dragonblade, I've noticed an issue with ship section names. In Raptor's R-Mod he renamed the Human Extended Range section to FissionExtendedRange or something like that, and the AI routines crapped out because they couldn't find a DE ER section (its hardcoded to look for DEExtendedRange.shipsection I believe), meaning the AI couldn't build any ER sections until it got Cruisers.

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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Dragonblade » Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:23 am

Update: Models
I have a working Armor DE armor section, and I rather like it. It is the most heavily armed of all the normal armor sections (7 small, 2 med) but the guns are in positions that make it very hard to focus more than a few on any single target. (in a test fight 10 IE armors went up against 16 hiver ships and lost)

Edit: DEHammerhead working too.

re:SpardaSon21
The name problem was the name of the model, not the shipsection file. I'm using the same names for shipsections wherever possible, even when I change the shipsection drastically (colony and ER will both have significant changes)

(sidenote: my post size will go down now that I'm working on models and most of the complex stuff is figured out)
"Truth is relative."

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SpardaSon21
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by SpardaSon21 » Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:14 pm

Ah okay, you should be fine then.

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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Dragonblade » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:53 am

Update: Concept

I figured out what to do with my drones, more or less. I knew the IE were going to be another drone heavy faction, but I was having problems figuring out if I wanted MORE drones or BETTER drones (as good as morrigi) I figured out that I can do BOTH.

I can have 3 types of drones rather than just 2.
Light: 1 small gun
Medium: 3 small guns(no pd)
Heavy: 1 medium/2-or-3-or-4 small(no pd) or 2 medium (haven't decided yet)

Then I add in a 'new' drone weapon (the weapon that uses drones) that allows only the IE light drone. (And is IE only obviously)

This way I can have more drones in that my destroyers have 3 slots, but 2 are the light drones with only 1 gun, and the other slot is normal (Or I give them two normal slots and use the light drones on cruisers only) I can have a similar increase in numbers on the CR/DN but have a bunch be light drone only. (Or not, and get more drones from command/engine sections)

I can also use this to make my cruisers more support-y by giving them light drone slots on command/engine sections. Not alot of firepower in only 1 small gun but allows them to send stuff up and help the destroyers or other better drones.

Update: Models
particle beam and neutron beam barrels. Pulsed fission engines.

Update: Experiments
I also figured out how explicit sections function if one is explicit and the other isn't. It just makes the explicit-ed section selector go away (useful for my ftl-capable ships that still have selectable commands: ER/Colony)
"Truth is relative."

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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Dragonblade » Sat May 01, 2010 7:37 am

Update: Models
I have been having so much fun with blender.
Small drone complete. As well as the .weapon that uses them. (not hard)

Concept models for: (these are really primitive, mostly just blocks to give me the rough shape)
Torpedo DE
Drone DE
Medium Drone

Complete, but needs animations and shipsection files:
Stargate, +Command/Engine sections (starting gatestation)
Heavy Drone (I had so much fun designing this)
(Question on drones and animations: Can I set it so the animation goes off when it launches? And then reverses when it lands?)

I have an armor DE, but it badly needs revising. I like its appearance, but its way too good. 7 small guns, 2 medium sounds not too overpowered, but when combined with the 4 guns on the engine and another 4 on the hammerhead (which also needs revising) they get 15 small guns, which is brutal on a DE and more than some point defense ships! They are also WAY too thin, so thin that they basically couldn't be hit from the front or rear. My other DEs have enough width and shape they get hit from the front about as much as a morrigi ship.

(my next post will probably have pictures to finally show what I mean by 'exotic' design style)

Update: Tech
I managed a neat trick to give the IE access to stations in fission era. They can get orbital drydocks once they get cruisers (the 'advantage' it gives is negligible) and then stations from there. But everyone else still needs fusion to get stations. I pulled it off by making fusion unlock orbital drydocks on the other races instead of cruisers, but still requiring cruisers to get it. The IE still require fusion for any of the other techs that come off orbital drydocks. It took some fiddling with the way techs link to other techs. (I would argue that getting access to stations in fission isn't as big a deal as it sounds, because stations are VERY expensive, and using morrigi econ means they really want those CR tradeships. It also fits really well with the fact they already have gatestations and lots of experience building in space. Playtesting will confirm/debunk balance)
"Truth is relative."

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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Dragonblade » Tue May 11, 2010 6:35 am

OK, I finally bothered to get a imageshack account so I could put up some pictures.

First up is the spinal mount. Standard command, fission engine, particle beam barrel. I wanted to add some feather/wing like structures to it for more detail, but I lack the skill to make it look good. (That theme would also be used on other ships)
Image

My two large weapon barrels, particle beam on left, neutron on right. In keeping with the theme of 'only a tiny change between the large beam barrels' so common with the other races you will note they are... almost exactly the same... (Note to self: make them a bit more different...)
Image

Now the 4 commands I have. From left to right; deep scan, hammerhead, strafe, standard. (you can't tell very well, but the strafe and deep scan are almost completely new models other than the windows, the hammerhead is basically just stuff added to the basic)
Image
You can't see it well, but the strafe is longer and more aggressive looking than the others, and yes that is a med gun on the bottom. The hammerhead is also my revised one, my earlier one was symmetric and had spots for 4 guns, this one has 3. Then I realized I didn't have to have symmetric command sections, having a definitive "up" and "down" makes it so much easier to design them.

Torpedo De, Strafe command (note, its upside down) pulsed fission engine.
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My old armor (left) and new armor concept (right), you can see why it badly needs revamping because of how superthin it is.
Image

Gatestation-Stargate. The sphere in the middle is there because the computer always aims for the center of the target, and without it it couldn't be hit, it will be obscured by an effect as soon as I can figure out how to make a big glowing thing to put there. The little spinal mount ship is for scale. The ends of the arc things are light gun points. The pointy things around the cones and the dishes on the command towers are supposed to rotate.
Image
You wouldn't believe how long it took me how to get those girders in the back looking the way I wanted. The model is actually not a single section, the command towers are the command section, the engines are the cone thingys and the big rings and the connection things the commands sit on are the mission. (So I can have it get partially damaged, like stations)

Drone DE concept. (Note how extremely primitive the concept models are, I haven't started actually working on them yet)
Image

A closeup of the drones. Light drone on left, heavy on right. (there is supposed to be an animation for the heavy drone where it opens up, but I don't know how to make blender animations work in-game) I have a concept for the med drone as well, but I don't have a model for it.
Image
Those four small guns on the heavy drone are strafe type, so you can't put pd there.

Someone said before that engine sections couldn't rotate, but then I was playing a game as the hivers and saw the engines on the gates are pointed in a strange direction. So I tested it, and they CAN be pointed in new directions, which opens up all sorts of new designs. Here's the minelayer concept, the mines come out the back thing outlined in pink (blender's choice, not mine)
Image

The pursuit concept. Its viewed from almost straight up and a little back so you can see the engine things, the smaller one on the lower right is a front view.
Image

And last is my DE def platform. It could probably use some more work... it was one of the first things I did. (viewed from above)
Image

You can see why I call them 'exotic' designs, mostly because the command/engine sections are never in the same place relative to the mission section. (I know there are plenty of ship designs out there far more exotic then mine, but I'm still new at this.) It's also been really slow going because I can't just take my basic mission section and slap on some new components to make it new, I have to make each thing from scratch. (Although I can do that, more or less, for my engines and commands.)

I also wrote up a nice neat list of all the changes I am making, so I can better keep track of what I'm doing. Some of them I will release as independent mods for testing: a slight rebalance of pd and drones, making flock col useful instead of a joke, a small change to mk1 shields to make them suck less (Seriously, I don't even bother using them, even if I do research them, I only bother because they unlock the more useful mk2.)

Thoughts/comments/opinions on design are welcome. Additional ideas are also welcome, I still have a lot of sections to go through.
"Truth is relative."

Jagard
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Jagard » Tue May 11, 2010 7:22 am

I want to start by saying that I love the concept behind your designs. Especially the Armor section. However, you're right, some of them are a little thin looking.

The Spinal Mount looks really cool, but the junction in the center looks kind of flimsy, I feel like it'll fly apart when it fires. Never mind when it's fired upon.

I agree that the barrels could stand a bit more distinction. Or not. You could always try getting away with really different textures.

The command sections are all really awesome.

The Torpedo section is a beast! In a good way. Though compared to the other sections you have here so far, I think those red organic-like extensions almost make it look too different from the other designs.

Armor, again, is just sexy.

That gate station looks terrific. They may have been time intensive, but those girders are a nice touch. I hope that it's not too open for the computer
to target properly. Even from the side, it has a very small targetable area, especially if what's shooting at it does so from a little above or below.

As there aren't very many details on the Drone section, all I can say is it looks a little insubstantial at this stage. Gotta start feeding it so it'll be more than skin and bones. :)

Drones are pretty spiffy. Especially the heavy.

I don't know about anyone else, but the minelayer looks really lopsided to me. Not sure if you put engines on the back of the mission section to balance the placement of the drive, but I get the impression that the thing would want to spin in circles if it tried to go anywhere.

I'm not sure why, but I'm not crazy about the pursuit. Could be that it looks a tad like a vacuum cleaner. The very thin connection to the command section kindof gives it the same problem the Spinal mount has. I have trouble believing that it won't just break off if the ship pulls a tight turn.

I like the defense platform. Put a few more details on that guy and he'll be golden.

Really liking what you've got here thus far. Can't wait to see what your further efforts produce!

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Netrum
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Netrum » Tue May 11, 2010 3:45 pm

Very very nice m8.
I am looking forward to playing this mod when its finnished :D
Keep up the good work m8 :)
Image

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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Dragonblade » Tue May 11, 2010 6:49 pm

Jagard was right, my pursuit was hideous. So I made a new concept model.
Image
I tried out the concept model to see how big/good it looked in-game. Its about the right size, but maybe it could use slightly longer wings... The flames from the main engine in the center and the six small engines on the wing things looked fantastic, so this is the design I'm going to use for it. It also fits better with my design concepts of verticalness and wing shapes. (You may have figured out that the IE are also a winged race)

Those four wing things would look awesome if I manage to pull off the feathers/wing curve properly. I get the feeling this is going to be one of the harder sections to model. I'm also going to have to be careful of that connection with the command section and clipping with the parts that stick off the commands...

The one thing that concerns me about this design is that the "center" of the mission section is hollow. It would be harder to hit from directly above or to the side... Hopefully the fact that its a destroyer and constantly shifting around means that its unlikely that anything would sit directly to its side or above it for very long. Or I could make it have two very large wings instead of four small ones...
"Truth is relative."

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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Dragonblade » Tue May 25, 2010 2:32 am

It's been a while since my last update. I was taking a break and playing around with some new mod ideas. (much simpler than the IE)

Update: models
I finished my drone DE, although I think the prong things on the bottom could use some antennas or something.
Image
In combat it almost looks like that round thing out in front is the command section, which looks a little liir-ish to me.

I had a small panic moment when I realized my light drone weapon was flawed. It was still using the "drone" turret mount. Which meant it could be used by normal drones, and no one would ever use the light drone when the next best has 3 times the firepower. A 3 normal drone DE ship would be way too good, so I had to find a new turret mount to use. It had to be able to land drones, and have no other weapons that could be used by the IE. Fortunately the prisionershuttle mount fits those requirements. I haven't tested to see what happens when the drone ship is lost and the drones run out of time. They may go run to a new ship or they may explode as normal drones do. I never play zuul so I don't know how the slave disk (which uses that mount) reacts to losing its mothership.

As soon as I go write some stuff up I'm going to post again, explaining just who the IE really are and what their motivation is. It's about time I did that, having decided long ago what they are.

One more thing...: Cruisers
I said already I planned to use cruisers as very good support ships but relatively poor combat ships. While its easy to make them poor combat ships (reduce the number of guns) it can be hard to make them good support. The COL for instance is an excellent support weapon, but how do I make IE COL ships better than other factions? 2 launchers would be horrifically overpowered, so I can't just give them more. Actually, this is true of all the support/combat weapons. Drones, Mines, and Cracker COL are all very powerful 'support' weapons. To a lesser extent, torpedo weapons and impactors could also be considered support, as they are long range weapons, but they are so powerful that its easy to argue them as direct combat. clearly I have not decided on the weapon loadouts for these kinds of ships.

I suppose I could make the barrage section and impactor sections very frail, more suited to hanging back and firing from afar, but I don't know what to do about the rest of the 'support' types. Any thoughts? This really isn't an urgent issue, I'm not done with destroyers yet and haven't started on cruisers.
"Truth is relative."

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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by Dragonblade » Wed May 26, 2010 12:18 am

OK, I meant to do this yesterday, but I finished at like 3:30 am.

I won't post it as text because I don't think it would fit in the post character limit. It was 9 pages of text in openoffice. I won't torment anyone with that kind of text-wall unless they want to read it.

On that note, here it is anyways, in mod form. Mount it like a mod and start a new game, choose morrigi as your race and read the details.
Locale.zip

(Rats, I forgot to include the section on how they like to use high energy burst weapons, oh well, there it is.)

As long as it is, it could probably use some more details on the culture and history. Opinions/thoughts are welcome.

As a side note, I'm getting close to the first playable version, destroyers in the fission era, followed closely by destroyers in the fusion and am era. I'll work on cruisers after that.

One more thing...: Cruisers, again
Although IE cruisers are going to be laughably underarmed compared to other factions, there will still be plenty of reason to use them. They are still about 5 times as hard to kill as a DE, just like everyone else. They can use some weapons that the little ships can't use, like non-spinal large mounts and Pulse Lasers(HCL), Projectors and COL.

The main advantage of cruisers will be the ability to place ftl drives on them. these are expensive, slow in combat, mostly unarmed, and fragile. But the advantage is that they can send small strike teams without needing a fleetcraft to move them about. For better armed and more mobile cruisers, use non-ftl drives and a fleetcraft.
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BizzarreCoyote
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge

Post by BizzarreCoyote » Wed May 26, 2010 4:25 am

Well, as for the background, I like what you've got. Very impressive on the destroyer designs as well. As for the way they actually play, well...the soon to arrive demo will answer that for me. It's very impressive the amount of work you've put into this.

I can tell I'm gonna enjoy playing as them.
Image

overweightninja wrote: Bows & Arrows or small calibre weapons are all well and good, but unless you're exploding zed heads, you're just creating evil brain munching swiss cheese.

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