Faction: Infinite Edge (Release v0.1-DE-AM)

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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge (DEMO Release v0.08-DE-FIS)

Post by Dragonblade » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:18 am

I tested the additions to the AI affinity file to see if there were any changes to AI behavior. the only thing they did was build a constructor. It still didn't use stargates or fleetcraft. Without developer support the IE will, unfortunately, be restricted to human players or just an AI sideline faction doomed to be crushed with ease.

Update: More changes to go into next release
-Increased armor on all command sections by 75, they died a little too easily, particularly the not heavily armored ones like deep scan and fire control.
-Reduced armor on mission sections by 50, to compensate for the increased armor on commands. The 25 total increase on health is not particularly significant.
-the Stargate will now be a single section, as you can't actually do anything with the other sections.

Update: Progress
Some good news first, I finally got dxops to work, so I can go look at the models the game already uses in some detail rather than just through the dx viewer. this will help on getting sizes right for cruisers, or resizing some of my destroyers which may need it. (The shield section is a bit small for instance, same with point defense)

which brings me to more good news, now that I can see how the animations are set up in normal models, I can adapt that to make blender animations work. The main problem was that I couldn't NAME the animations in blender, and the game looks for animation names. Now that I know which names I need and where to put them, I can get animations in.

And now the bad news. while blender can import text .x files, it doesn't seem to save everything in the right places... so I can't even see what the techtree is supposed to look like! (Let alone remake it as suggested on the wiki) boxes are in the wrong place and are the wrong size, the sticks are all overlapping or just in the wrong spot, its horrific. I don't suppose anyone was clever enough to keep a copy of the tech tree in a usable position? (in the recreated fashion, so that it would be easy to add new techs to it instead of remaking the techtree again?)

Other news: I created the new small weapon files (although I still need the techs to truly finish them, and haven't made new icons yet) and I decided that instead of just making everything shoot twice for 150% damage I would give each type of weapon its own benefit. so lasers get pulse fire, mass weapons hit harder, beamers/emitter get increased time and slightly higher dmg. The war quoit gets a burst fire of 5 shots (each at 30% dmg of normal), its looks fantastic when it fires. All still get about 150% dmg from basic versions. (x-ray gets 120%)

I also took a look at the damage values for the early medium weapons, to see how they compare with the advanced smalls in medium mounts. mass drivers still do more than twice the damage of the hardest hitting adv small, although plasma cannons can be outdone at short and long range by med mount adv smalls. nuke Dfire missiles can be outpowered too, but honestly, who would use directfires with nukes? all the fusion era meds do way more than double what the adv smalls can reach on med mounts. still though, they may need reducing to 125% damage instead of 150%... we'll see with playtesting.

I also tested some stuff trying to get the gatestation to stop spinning when it gets pushed. No such luck. even giving it really, really, REALLY high turning thrust and speed had exactly 0 effect. Another sidenote about gatestations is that the better version isn't going to have a lot better armor in the way of pure hp, but it WILL be able to get armor upgrades, which will make it tougher without just slapping on huge health numbers.
"Truth is relative."

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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge (DEMO Release v0.08-DE-FIS)

Post by Dragonblade » Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:35 pm

Update: Some fixes and progress
-Flight Leader C&C increased command to 16 from 14. It was getting really hard to fight back against people with so much better c&c ships, particularly the zuul.
-Flight leader C&C hp increased by 75. This makes it fairly tough (it still lacks the better armors) so it can by any kind of ship instead of just a droneDE and still be useful.
-Stargates will only APPEAR to be single section. I forgot that I needed the command or engine section to make it count as a station :oops:
-Fleetcraft shouldn't take as long to load, the little destroyers (which were complete ships themselves) pegged on the side and in the hanger will be taken off.
-I may replace the Fleetcraft concept model with a new one entirely. I don't really like that design.

I'm going to try something that will make explorers and colony ships more customizable. I can make them Cruiser class, but still Design-Class destroyer. This will let me give them changeable commands and ftl drives. this way you won't need a cruiser to get a jumpdrive ER ship, and colony ships will get longer range and faster. This does mean the colony ship will stress the gate network... (sidenote: they will probably only get three command choices, 'Standard' for low cost, 'Battle' for combat ERs, and 'Deep scan' for scouting)

I've made only a bit of progress on models, Fusion engine and Shielded Fusion Engine. I've been messing with trying to get my animations working now that I think I can. I also still haven't made a functioning techtree :( and thats holding me up.

-Cruisers.
Three thoughts, the first relates to the Huge Turret idea. If I do give it double barreled photonic torpedo line, what about kelvenics? or disruptors? or Em-Pulsars? disruptors might be ok, but EM-pulsars have aoe, which might be a little overpowered with a double barreled version. similarly the Kelvenics would basically just double their chill bonus, because both shots would almost always both hit or both miss. Two turrets of those would rapidly add up.

The other thing about cruisers is that I wont be doing what I did for destroyers. Instead of having a unique hull for each mission section I'm going to have a handful of hull-types. I'm thinking something like this:
-Combat: Armor, War, Barrage, Blazer, Projector, Impactor, Huge Turret.
-Carrier: Drone, Bio War, Assault Shuttle, COL, boarding.
-Non-Combat: Refinery, Biome colony, Salvage, Mining.
-Utility: Strikeforce C&C, ECM, ER, Point Defence, Minelayer.
Each ship within those classes will be similar in shape. the command/engine sections will be in the same place on those ships and they will share damaged models. This is primarily to save time and effort on creating them. if I have a basis to work on then it will be much, much easier to get them done. It still leaves enough room for me to get creative with it.

My last thought for today revolves around the Blazer/barrage/hugeturret/Impactor problem. The idea of the huge turret is stuck in me good, you would be hard pressed to make me give it up. but the concern is how to make it worth using the other sections. My solution is to make the Huge Turret a sort of jack-of-all-trades the Blazer will have 3 non-turreted HCL weapons. The Barrage 4 non-turret torp launchers in solo banks, so you can diversify torps, and use the plasma torp line. The impactor section will also have three non-turret weapons, but it will be very, very frail. This way the Huge Turret is still a great section, without completely overriding the others. (Sidenote: Battlebridge won't have any HCL, Assault won't get a torp. Max HCL weapons on one ship, 3. Max torps, 4. While the torp number is fairly high, most other factions get HCL and torps, and max HCL on one ship on anyone else is at least 4. Trying to keep cruisers underarmed, but still useful, is a delicate balancing act.) (also curiously, this will make the IE the only faction to get both fixed and turreted HCL weapons)
"Truth is relative."

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Okim
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge (DEMO Release v0.08-DE-FIS)

Post by Okim » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:17 am

The sphere in the middle is there because the computer always aims for the center of the target, and without it it couldn't be hit, it will be obscured by an effect as soon as I can figure out how to make a big glowing thing to put there.


Sorry if this was answered. I just was too lazy to read the whole thread...

You can put any effect to your model by editing ShipLights.def file located in species folder.

There you can add any existing effect and set its values:

light
{
name "NodeDrive-a"
effect Effects/node-drive-a.effect

period 0.5 <- "recharge" rate of the effect
offset 0 <- how long will it take before effect will be shown
duration 10.0 <- how long your effect will be shown.
}

To add it to your model you will have to add a dummy named in the same way as your effect in ShipLights.def file.
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TrashMan
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge (DEMO Release v0.08-DE-FIS)

Post by TrashMan » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:43 am

Strangely enough, I made a bluelight effect and added it to ShipLight.def and put in a police cutter. Still doesn't show up. Strange.
Image
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Okim
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge (DEMO Release v0.08-DE-FIS)

Post by Okim » Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:02 pm

It must be named exactly as it is present in the file. Also you should connect it to the model, however i don`t think it is actually required.

If you don`t have this effect on the model - it could be that the effect is either misplaced or pointing inside the model (though with a simple light it is not the case :))
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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge (DEMO Release v0.08-DE-FIS)

Post by Dragonblade » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:21 pm

Thanks okim. I've been figuring out how to do some of the things like badges and animations from paying attention to other mod threads. (there isn't much about some of this stuff on the wiki) Although I think I need to figure out how to make an effect using the effect creator, I don't think there is one that would be appropriate already in-game.

Oh, while I'm here. small update.
DEcloak and DEWildWeasel done, the fusion era med weapons done, positron beam done. I changed my mind about a cloaking engine section for the IE, they won't get it. They don't need it, and it really isn't their style (Lowest chances of all factions for cloak.) And I made new little icons for the advanced small weapons.

Also: It was suggested elsewhere that you could have CR class ships designed as a DE. I tried that, so I could make the ER and Colony customizable again. It didn't work, it still needed cruiser construction before I could build them (but they did show up in the DE design.)
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Rubeh
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge (DEMO Release v0.08-DE-FIS)

Post by Rubeh » Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:09 pm

I found it easier to edit an already existing effect to suit my needs then making one from scratch.

Just an idea, you could use the node points and edit from there, remove the 'smoke' stuff, etc.

Edit:
Node_Point.effect - the effect i was talking about.
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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge (DEMO Release v0.08-DE-FIS)

Post by Dragonblade » Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:55 am

Thanks to Okim for showing me HOW to get effects on ships and Rebeh for suggesting the node point as a place to start, Stargates now have a glowing center. And while I was looking through the effects I saw one labeled "core" and was curious what it was. Its the core of the system killer, a ball of energy with tendrils coming off it. So my glowing sphere also has that too, it looks great. although when you zoom in the effects 'go behind' the model or something and the sphere is visible. shrug.

I decided on the advanced destroyers for the other factions.
Humans: Turreted directfire torpedo launcher (Single barrel) and 1 missile. Using a modified armor hull and some parts taken from the torpedo hull. (This took the most work)
Hiver: An armor section with -1 small and +1 medium, and extra armor, LOTS of extra armor. the model is a slightly modified armor section.
Tarkas: A sort of "heavy strafe" section, a mission section with 4 strafe mediums. modeled using the War hull and the strafe mediums taken from the CR strafe.
Liir: I couldn't decide what bonus they get in combat, so I decided they would instead circumvent one of their weaknesses. Usually Liir are slow, so the advanced destroyer for them is a pursuit section with the hp and armaments of the armor. modeled primarily using the pursuit section, and the med gun from the armor on the underside of the hull.
Zuul: if anyone gets the most damage output from their advanced, its the Zuul. A Heavy Combat Laser (very limited firearc) a medium gun with primarily forward and left flank arc, and two smalls. modeled after the spinal mount, using the cutting beam barrel for the gun (I had to scale it down to 60% so it wouldn't completely dwarf the ship, it only mostly dwarfs it)
All of these have radically increased costs, for instance the Hiver one has a base price 4 times that of the armor. Obviously they will need playtesting.

Another thing I am considering to make the IE DEs just a little less powerful is to make all the small guns they get linked to a single bank on each section(Point defense excluded.) this will make it harder to fire on multiple targets the way they normally do, and it makes it harder to not waste slots on point defense. its a thought, I will test it some before including this change or not.

Edit:
Removed the missile from the human ADV de.
And I finished the TechTrees! Instead of trying to make a new tech tree model I turned the normal one into a text .x file and was able to manually edit it. All I did was create a copy of the hiver line and moved it slightly closer to the player, so when you click on it you almost always get the IE tech rather than the hiver one. I also moved the Morrigi ones over to the side, so you can see both tech lines next to each other. Then I added two techs to the power systems line, which are the ADV DE SYS and ADV small guns ones. I don't have blue lines towards them, that would be WAY to much work trying to do that manually.

the only things left to do before DE-Fus release is the IE Battleship-de (Advanced destroyer,) remake the fission fleetcraft, and make a Fusion fleetcraft. (although, now that I think about it, I may just go straight to AM, it only adds 2 new weapon models and 1 new section, and the last fleetcraft)
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Okim
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge (DEMO Release v0.08-DE-FIS)

Post by Okim » Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:49 pm

although when you zoom in the effects 'go behind' the model or something and the sphere is visible. shrug.


If you are working with Max, than this should fix your problem with the sphere:

1. open material editor (press 'm').
2. add a new material, set its opacity to '0'.
3. apply this material to your sphere.

If your sphere is a part of the whole model that select its faces and apply the material to them. Be careful not to 'paint' the whole model :)

This should make your sphere invisible, but will leave it able to receive weapon impacts.
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TrashMan
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge (DEMO Release v0.08-DE-FIS)

Post by TrashMan » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:46 am

This thread suffers from an extreeme lack of pictures.
Image
halo07guy wrote: Praise be to Trashman! All will revel in his holy modding skillz!
And I say onto you: Blessed are those who play my mods - for they are good!

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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge (DEMO Release v0.08-DE-FIS)

Post by Dragonblade » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:29 pm

Thats because my screenshots look like this:
Image
(You can kinda see one of my spinal mounts with a positron beam and shielded engines on the right)

here are the advanced destroyers for the normal factions
Image
left to right: Zuul HCL, Human turreted directfire torp, Hiver heavy armor, Liir fast armor, Tarka heavy strafe

Meson and Positron beam barrels
Image

Medium weapon barrels
Image
the Tesla coil is obviously the emitter, because I thought it was funny. the thing on the left is the chakkar, the thing with three crystals is the phaser, just to the left of that is the inertial cannon. In the back are the directfire racks and the missile launcher. the three guns that look alot alike are the plasma line. The plain barrel with the claw is the mass driver.

my current fleetcraft
Image
I don't really like it, its ugly, bulky, and 90% hanger. and those little destroyers on the side? full scale ships, and full detail, makes the game take forever to load them. I will be remaking this monstrosity. (solar sails are fine though)

the fusion DE engines
Image
shielded version is the one with the wings

The only things holding me back from releasing the next version are the fleetcraft (at the very least I'm going to take off those DEs pinned on the side) and two sections (DE battleship and absorber)
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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge (Release v0.1-DE-AM)

Post by Dragonblade » Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:19 am

New version up on the first post. DE-AM. All destroyers and antimatter tech!

some bonus pics.
my new fleetcraft (its kinda hard to get a good shot of it...)
Image
its much more reasonable compared to the other one. each of those box things on the rings is a hanger for an individual DE, the odd things in the center are docks for cruisers. This thing easily holds 6 cruisers and 30 DE. its much more reasonibly sized, loads instantly, and doesn't have the intangible problem the other one had.

and now, the DE Battleship!
Image
It has a spinal large, and two mediums, and two smalls. It's EASILY the most powerful DE in the game, its also the most expensive. The sections is TEN TIMES the cost of the armor, 80000 base. Using the most expensive equipment/sections/armor it costs more than 350k! It also has a construction cost higher than many cruisers, 8000 base, not including the other sections. Those extra engines on the back also make it fast (but it has trouble getting up to speed or changing directions quickly, because its also very massive.) The only way to fit that much stuff onto the ship and still have it function was to cram extra fusion generators in it, and they explode violently when they lose structural integrity, It explodes like a detonating fusion torpedo when destroyed. (unfortunately, I forgot to change its command cost to 3 like I had planned. :oops: ) It's got extra armor plates over the engine section, so its hard to hit the engines from the side. Shield generating engines are too large to be protected by those armor plates though.

Some thoughts.
With the addition of the "Fargate" mobile deploying gatestation and the spacefolding advancement doubling the gate capacity the maximum gate capacity is just as high as the Hivers, which I DO NOT WANT. (ok, ok, each gate costs a fortune in upkeep, and each "Fargate" costs 500k, so its expensive as hell to do that)

The question is, should I have the "Gatestation" proper be made available by the second tech in the gate line, or by deep space constructors as I originally planned? If I change it so the gate tech unlocks the gatestation then they simply won't get the doubled gate capacity tech. This makes some sense, as their gates are more suited to getting groups of DE around, rather than whole fleets of CR and DN like the hiver's is.

Now, about cruisers and the next version:
The requirements for all CR stuff under fusion is staggering, its the bulk of everything. Its most sections, the larger trade ships, the system patrol ship (Police ship), more defense sats, almost all the large guns (including the multi barrel versions of the small and mediums)... and the IE get stations without needing fusion, so I would have to do all the stations too!

Because thats simply an enormous amount of work, and will likely take me forever to finish, what I will be doing is releasing a few cruisers at a time.
first will be at least one of each base hull type. Probably Armor, Colonizer, Drone, and Strikeforce C&C. (Although I wouldn't be surprised if I include the CR Battleship, previously known as the "Huge Turret" section) and the fission engines, of which there will be three or four (Fission, Pulsed Fission, Solar Sail, and maybe Pulsed Fission Solar Sail) And at least the standard, hammerhead, and strafe commands.

By splitting it up into small chunks it will reduce the time between updates, and give those sections a chance to be tested. (Also as a sidenote: the AI will begin to be able to use the IE, albeit poorly, once cruisers make their entrance. Because cruisers can get FTL engines, the computer will use those. They won't be very good or dangerous, but at least they will sort of function.)

It will however be a while before that first update, I've something I need to work on that I've only got two weeks to do which is much more difficult and time consuming.
"Truth is relative."

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adecoy95
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge (Release v0.1-DE-AM)

Post by adecoy95 » Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:11 am

it looks good sofar, i tried the 0.1 for a bit a few weeks ago. i look forward to it

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Dragonblade
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge (Release v0.1-DE-AM)

Post by Dragonblade » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:38 am

Look, Mr. "Writes huge blocks of text" is back.

first I want to say Infinite Edge is NOT DEAD. Its only been 3 months since I last posted/made progress.

Not much to add unfortunately :( (although I do finally have my cruiser hull bases) I haven't been working very much on it...

(Sidenote: the engines, in red, are just what i needed as a base to get started, the final engines will have more stuff, same with the command section)
Carrier type (Drone, COL, Bio War, Heavy assault shuttle, Boarding)
Image

Combat type (Armor, War, Barrage, Blazer, Projector, Impactor, Battleship)
Image
yes, its based off the star destroyer... Hopefully the addition of big guns will make it look less star destroyer-y.

Utility type (C&C, ECM, HVY ER, Point defense, Minelayer)
Image
Probably the most visually interesting of my bases.

Non-Combat type (Refinery, Biome Colonizer, Repair&Salvage, Mining)
...Its so boring its almost not worth uploading a pic of...
Image
The reason for the big bland circle is so i know how big it needs to be, the final versions will be more varied than with the other hull types. A big dome city thing for colony, including landing feet. An open circle thing with repair instruments for salvage (large enough to fit around other cruisers.) giant refinery thing and fuel tanks. mining drills and storage boxes for mining.

My design style has gone from vertical to more conventional because I was having problems figuring out of to make good looking vertical ships (and managing the firearcs I wanted for the huge turrets.) Also a problem would have been fitting them inside the shield bubbles. (you may remember I had to make new shield bubbles for the destroyers.) (I'll go back to vertical for the dreads, I think)

The reason for the bases is to avoid the ugly boxy concept models that my destroyers ended up with. So while they still won't be anywhere near as high quality as the other mods I've seen, at least they won't be boxes. This also serves as the basis for the damaged models, so I don't have to make dozens of them.

One last pic, a concept of size and scale of these things.
Image
While the human engine circle is bigger than my stuff, my ships are longer and on the whole either as big or bigger everywhere else, so I don't have to worry about the "not getting hit" problem I had with some of my destroyers.

(Sidenote about my medium emitter weapon. I will be redoing it, the tesla coil was funny, but its getting in the way of where I want to put some medium guns, so its going to be turned into a normal style barrel)

un-related to IE, I've been lurking in the months I was gone, watching the progress of some other mods and stuff. is it just me, or did all the other major mods in development also stall when I disappeared? The multi-scifi-faction one seems to have stopped updating, and for a while it looked like Okim was going to make a 40k one, then he deleted his posts. Just a weird co-incidence? Or was my constant posting somehow keeping everyone excited and competitive feeling? (Also, loving what I'm seeing of sots2)
"Truth is relative."

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SpardaSon21
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Re: Faction: Infinite Edge (Release v0.1-DE-AM)

Post by SpardaSon21 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:28 am

Funny you mention the Star Destroyer, but to me the combat base looks more like a Delta-7 Aethersprite with a funny growth on top than a Star Destroyer. Star Destroyers are thicker and wider. Although my nitpicking may just be because I'm a total nerd. :?

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