Warcat's Shipyard

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DervMan
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Re: Warcat's Shipyard

Post by DervMan » Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:09 am

Warcat wrote:We just took a break to play with it...:)


LOL! :lol:
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Alpha Centauri
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Re: Warcat's Shipyard

Post by Alpha Centauri » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:49 pm

Warcat wrote:Sorry drages, no updates yet.
I was working on a Liir engine and I was trying to figure out how to attach effects to that model (I managed to do it but with a weird effect), but this was about one month ago...

Anyway I think that BSotS will not be abandoned, at least by me and (I guess and hope) by Alpha too. We just took a break to play with it...:)

I'm hoping to return. We "abandoned" it for many months last time, and then did the biggest update we've ever done. Hopefully, Warcat and I can repeat such a superb effort.

I'm ramping up to return to work, so starting a big project now is probably not going to happen (though... never say never).

If you've never played Distant Worlds: Universe - that's a cool game1. Similarly, Paradox is coming out with Stellaris - and I'm curious to see if they release a fun game that's fully functional for once - or a bug beast - as they've done too many times to get into.

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1 - for which I've also made a couple versions of mods for - Unleashed Extended II is published - and I've got UE III nearly done.

Alpha Centauri
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Re: Warcat's Shipyard

Post by Alpha Centauri » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:38 pm

Homeworld - the original - was amazing. But all of the sequels dumbed it down. :( :evil:

I'm tweaking my copy of BSots 2.0c now. It has a bunch of minor fixes, and some niceties.

I'm going to add minelayer satellites :googly:

lol - should be tots evil. I have reduced the rate of fire for mines by 1/2 to try to balance them out, Warcat. AI is still going to be dumb, but 1/2 is a pretty big balancing hit, so hopefully will keep things interesting.

I'm reducing the research costs of things - I feel like games are too slow right now. What do others think?

I'll try to release 2.0c this weekend.

Warcat
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Re: Warcat's Shipyard

Post by Warcat » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:26 am

Hi Alpha, glad to see you back with this awesome new!

I want to test the reduce RoF of minelayers.
Regarding the game's pace, I feel that DE era is a bit too short (mainly because it's basically the era where you have to explore the map with not so many combats, so it could be even a feature itself!). CR is fine imho, while Fusion is very huge, at least compared to Fission. Cannot say very much about AM, because I usually give the game up before pushing into it very much...

Alpha Centauri
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Re: Warcat's Shipyard

Post by Alpha Centauri » Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:47 pm

Warcat - you said you play 15-20 worlds / player. What race do you typically play?

That's typical of my play as well, and ironically I find that to make fission slow. Too slow for MP, good for a longer game SP. But I'd like some of the earliest techs to come more quickly, without compromising later ages.

So I'm thinking of reducing the costs of Fission era techs - so that the beginning of a game moves at a decent pace - while leaving fusion and later eras at their current pacing.

I especially want to make it so that you get to make some core decisions and go out into the world with your choices of combat loadouts. Drones, e.g., shouldn't take 30 turns to achieve. What I'd love to do for 3.0 is to move them to linked to cyber-root. So you have the root tech (freebie), and your earliest choices include: improved version of starting weapon, different weapon tech than is "standard" for your race, improved missiles, or drones (as far as weapons tech goes).

I'm thinking that robotics shouldn't be in the way of that choice (nor hiding it effectively from you - esp. a relatively new player).

Drones, like shields, should be available as a core tech if you wish to play that way...

Warcat
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Re: Warcat's Shipyard

Post by Warcat » Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:01 pm

Alpha Centauri wrote:Warcat - you said you play 15-20 worlds / player. What race do you typically play?

I usually pick Liirs or Tarkas, sometimes Morrigi and Human, seldom Hiver and never Zuul. I'm currently playing Tarkas.

That's typical of my play as well, and ironically I find that to make fission slow. Too slow for MP, good for a longer game SP. But I'd like some of the earliest techs to come more quickly, without compromising later ages.

I mean that I feel Fission is a bit too fast if compared to the middle game Fusion era (namely many Fission techs are overlooked in the early game to keep the pace of AI which rushes to CR/FUsion eras ASAP). Maybe this is very subjective and, as you stated, game setting/player/race dependant

I especially want to make it so that you get to make some core decisions and go out into the world with your choices of combat loadouts. Drones, e.g., shouldn't take 30 turns to achieve. What I'd love to do for 3.0 is to move them to linked to cyber-root. So you have the root tech (freebie), and your earliest choices include: improved version of starting weapon, different weapon tech than is "standard" for your race, improved missiles, or drones (as far as weapons tech goes).
That's be very cool.

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Ludovsky
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Re: Warcat's Shipyard

Post by Ludovsky » Fri May 13, 2016 12:11 am

Alpha Centauri wrote:
Warcat wrote:Sorry drages, no updates yet.
I was working on a Liir engine and I was trying to figure out how to attach effects to that model (I managed to do it but with a weird effect), but this was about one month ago...

Anyway I think that BSotS will not be abandoned, at least by me and (I guess and hope) by Alpha too. We just took a break to play with it...:)

I'm hoping to return. We "abandoned" it for many months last time, and then did the biggest update we've ever done. Hopefully, Warcat and I can repeat such a superb effort.

I'm ramping up to return to work, so starting a big project now is probably not going to happen (though... never say never).

If you've never played Distant Worlds: Universe - that's a cool game1. Similarly, Paradox is coming out with Stellaris - and I'm curious to see if they release a fun game that's fully functional for once - or a bug beast - as they've done too many times to get into.

----

1 - for which I've also made a couple versions of mods for - Unleashed Extended II is published - and I've got UE III nearly done.



So far Stellaris is not a bad game(I received it as a gift from a friend). This said, it's certainly not a "SOTS by another name and team". In fact, it's really more of a MOO/Galciv-in-real-time deal that specifically perfect the "create your own race" formula of the galciv games to level that make it hard for me to -ever- consider playing GalCiv again.

This said, there are some clear SOTS inspiration in my opinion(the sections-based ship designer is one) but the game is such an entirely different beast that it's not really that big of a deal(I certainly feel SOTS's take on a sections/weapons system has much more personality with how there were a lot of specialized section that felt like they had very clear cut use that were further bolstered by SOTS' physics-based weapons(so a strafing section on a ship had a really different effect than an assault bridge or stuff of the like).

In fact, despite the game being in real-time the gameplay is nothing like SOTS when it comes to combat. Pretty much so, I'd say combat is more of a real-time version of Civilization-style combat in that units slug it out in a simulation..... except this time it's in real-time so instead of an instant win/defeat/damage you get to see the progress of battles and technically can thus find yourself able to do stuff like telling units to bail it out.

If anything, this said, it's still a bit more satisfying than the Galciv-take on a "real-time simulation" what with units having actually modelled turrets and being able to see those actually swivel around to aim at the enemy unit(s) during battles and the likes.


It's not a bad game, but it's a different beast. So in fact it's kinda good and I specifically find myself enjoying how the fact that despite some inspirations from SOTS(multiple FTL options when creating your race, ship design using multiple sections, etc), the gameplay is still enough different there is still room for something like Sword of the Stars.

Alpha Centauri
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Re: Warcat's Shipyard

Post by Alpha Centauri » Sat May 21, 2016 11:30 pm

I'm enjoying the hell out of Stellaris. Unfortunately... despite adapting the sector concept which I've been suggesting to 4x game designers for years... it still runs into micromanagement hell.

If anything, they beat you over the face with it - instead of being able to use it to increase your empire's capabilities -they force you to use it and penalize you in multiple ways for doing so.[1]

DUMB. AS. BRICKS.

Maybe they will improve it. Or maybe I'll content myself with the 995 worlds mod that lets you control them all w/o sectors. But... you still end up in micro hell if you can't offload the tedium of "build something appropriate in this world square you STUPID AI" function to something!!!

Combat in Stellaris is ... lame. It's not the worst, and it's looks half-way pretty... but the sections don't matter, and the ship designer is a tool (he he), and there are no roles for ships in a fleet, no fleet designer, no fleet behavior control, no ship behavior control, no ability to see the difference in upgrades over your existing designs, no clarity on what a ship will upgrade to if its name has been retired, etc.

It's as inelegant in combat as Endless Space or SOASE was (maybe it's better now, I pooped myself in boredom early on with that game and abandoned it).

It gets a lot of things right - especially the events. I really love all the tropes that they've integrated, and I hope for many more, and expansions on the current ones.

But I've been playing all week - and like EVERY SINGLE 4X game - I'm at that same point: ugh, I want to play, but every game has become a slog. Why can't the AI offload some of the idiotic minutia so I can PLAY THE GAME instead of mindlessly click the obvious choice ad naseum?!!!

----
[1]
a) Reduced efficiency - with at a minimum 25% of your output being thrown in the toilet.
b) No sharing of global resources - so you have delete & reposition your super-reactor thingies.
c) Charging you vast amounts of the rarest of all resources to adjust your sector boundaries - even if you do so the first time - just misclick on something or click to see what it looks like - CHARGE!
d) No merge function - so you can't merge two sectors without deleting one.
e) Deleting one IS INSANELY EXPENSIVE
f) You lose all your accumulated resources in that sector (instead of reclaiming them)
g) You cannot reclaim their extra resources after handing some over. They're just freakin' gone. IDIOTS.
h) No distribution or shared production value for the sector
i) Hides all of the spaceports in a sector
j) Hides all of the colonization ships in a sector
k) Deletes in-progress orders when a sector is formed (throws away the work in progress!!!)
l) Sits on its hands instead of developing the worlds in its sectors.
m) ... and on an on...

puglebugle
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Re: Warcat's Shipyard

Post by puglebugle » Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:09 am

I played pretty much every 4x out there (except MOO, Stellaris, and Sots 2, only read about them)
I think main problem of Stellaris is Paradox...they do games by releasing early alpha, call it finished game and then do tons of DLCs.
While I didnt mind this with crusader kings 2 because it was really unique game i find their newer games (Hoi3, and from what i read in reviews, Stellaris and Hoi4)
are becoming somehow more mainstream things and are slowly diverting from original fanbase "hoi 3, 4". And they are still relaseing DLCs,,,that,,i simply wanted to say that I dont trust paradox anymore....
Star ruler 2 and Star drive 2 are pretty good but they tend to be either buggy or not polished(Indie Devs).
So my 4x of choice is Sots 1 for now.
Also,,,there is big probability that they were the "ones behind" sots 2, because to me it seems completely illogical that they, as a game publishers didnt know the game state being released, and the fact that (mecron mentioned it somewhere on forums) they receive all money from Sots 1. It simply seems like they used their "legal contract terms, licenses etc." to acquire Sots 1,2 after intentionally "dumbing it down". And since they never released a game with real graphics themselves before Stellaris, i wouldnt be suprised if Stellaris is using parts of Mars 2 engine.
Realistic Combat/Naval Gunnery/TechTree Revision SubMod (v1.1) for Bsots (mod for Sots 1) http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=57039&p=555149#p555149

Warcat
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Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:32 pm

Re: Warcat's Shipyard

Post by Warcat » Mon May 29, 2017 8:00 am

Update 2017.05.29

I've modded the Liir light and heavy drones, putting on them the two "missing" light mounts (for the latter, it's the BSotS version).
They are working even if I've encountered some issues I'm working on. Basically they're refusing to use the mounts I've added (they're shooting from the center of the model, instead of from the dedicated nodes).
I hope to solve this visual issue.

Next goals: adding modded drone models for each race according to BSotS needings. Stay tuned.

Alpha Centauri
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Re: Warcat's Shipyard

Post by Alpha Centauri » Mon May 29, 2017 4:26 pm

Woohoo! I can't wait.

If a gun node is spelled incorrectly (even just case of letters) between the .shipsection and the .X, they won't work. I assume you know that and have checked - but that's my only helpful thought.

Looking forward to better drone models!

Warcat
Posts: 1106
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:32 pm

Re: Warcat's Shipyard

Post by Warcat » Tue May 30, 2017 10:06 am

Yep, I checked.
If it were a mispelled name, I think the game would have attached the mispelled nodes in the center of the model even in the design panel, which it doesn't happen. I've played with the shipsection file with no success by changing the turret class from standard to strafe.

A strange thing happened however: I left the node names as the vanilla ones (i.e. gunnode##) and the Liir drones fired from their tentacles even if the nodes in the model weren't there! Very strange.

Maybe I need some more testings and/or I've done something wrong

Anyway I don't like the small mounts I've modeled in the last update so I'm working on adding something else...

Alpha Centauri
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Re: Warcat's Shipyard

Post by Alpha Centauri » Tue May 30, 2017 2:14 pm

Weird!

If they fired from the tentacles - I'd be okay with that, TBH.

Looking forward to see what your current idea is. Hopefully we can get this "ignores gun nodes" thing resolved!

Warcat
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Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:32 pm

Re: Warcat's Shipyard

Post by Warcat » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:47 am

Hiver CR Barrage

Improved Hiver Barrage, with two heavy beams (top) and two torpedo tubes (bottom).

Image

Link (DirectX, Blender, Shipsection and WeaponIconPlacement files)
Hiver CR Barrage
Last edited by Warcat on Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

Warcat
Posts: 1106
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:32 pm

Re: Warcat's Shipyard

Post by Warcat » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:53 am

Hiver CR Blazer

Hiver Blazer with three heavy beam mounts (two bottom, one top) and a heavy turret on top.
Image

Link (DirectX, Blender, Shipsection and WeaponIconPlacement files)
Hiver CR Blazer
Last edited by Warcat on Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:41 am, edited 4 times in total.

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