BSOTS 2.5a (Official BSots Thread)

Share your mods and tricks of the trade here.
Post Reply
Alpha Centauri
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:30 pm

BSOTS 2.5a (Official BSots Thread)

Post by Alpha Centauri » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:31 am

I'm working on this lately. I can't deliver the moon and stars, but it's got some balance fixes, some general bug fixes, and some enhancements. Generally - things that bugged me when playing 2.1 and I wanted to fix. ;)

I also borrowed a few ideas from the ngun mod-mod as well, though a sprinkling, not a large integration or set of changes.

I'm doing a guide for BSOTS 2.5 since I've heard from multiple sources that it really needs one. So that should be a nice addition as well. Also, I'm including a new "Master Tech (Fusion Start).tech" with all future mods, which you can use to have a game which starts in the fusion era. (as always, if you have some IT savvy, you can configure your PC to work as mine does and have access to all of my scripts, which allow for lots of additional modifications to the files).

One big change is I decided to go back to allowing all armors and reflectives to be mixed. If you play BSOTS 2.5 at 100/100 from a single planet start, I can guarantee that the economy is much tougher than it used to be, and that it's still an accomplishment to even make it to the first set of armor or coating. End game is definitely "best of everything!" - but that's how end games should be :)

I'll have more later this week.

For now, only minor fixes / tweaks to the tech tree. No restructuring (yet).

I'd still love to add more huge guns - and tweak the DN files to sport a better balance of weapons. But that's a major undertaking that I've not had the wherewithal to do.

Peace

2.5a available now:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/2jvvcmtee ... rs_2.5a.7z

As always - I'll tweak it and add more over time - maybe making 2.6 or a bug fixes only 2.5a or something.

But, as of this moment, that is my latest version that I am playing as well. :D
Last edited by Alpha Centauri on Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:56 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Rossinna-Sama
Posts: 1648
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:38 am

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:13 pm

How come you're going to allow the mixing of the armor types, if you don't mind me asking?
I personally found that to be one of the best parts of the design you had in place. Actually making me use the Comparative Analysis screen was certainly a nice touch.
Sword of the Stars 2 : Project Hiver - work in progress
Sword of the Stars 2 : Vanilla AI Enhancement Mod - Alpha Version 6 now Available.
Creator of the upcoming Seimei universe.

Alpha Centauri
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:30 pm

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by Alpha Centauri » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:22 am

Just my preference. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm playing a game now and being able to make my ships have all the goodies (eventually) is something I look forward to. I'm on turn something like 160 and I still don't have both basic armor and basic reflectives - only basic armor. Just getting to the point where I have access to both is a long slog. So to me, I purely prefer to have the option to make expensive, but better ships. Eventually. Not yet. :)

puglebugle
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:04 pm

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by puglebugle » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:11 pm

Mmmm, interesting :D.

Could I please ask that you would keep some organized changelog, bugfixes, changes from 2.1 for me, for Ngun 2.5 integration? (eventually)

Gl :D!
Realistic Combat/Naval Gunnery/TechTree Revision SubMod (v1.1) for Bsots (mod for Sots 1) http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=57039&p=555149#p555149

Alpha Centauri
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:30 pm

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by Alpha Centauri » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:45 pm

I try to keep details in the change log. I don't always track all changes.

I did some integration of NGun mod-mod! But not a ton - just a few things I cherry-picked. That mod-mod will retain its distinct flavor. :)

The problem with modding is I start doing stuff - find more I want to do - but usually run out of time / focus before I ever get it all done, so then it remains unpublished.

Hopefully, I'll have time this weekend (It's my birthday, and I have Friday off - probably!) ;)

puglebugle
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:04 pm

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by puglebugle » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:23 pm

Happy Birthday!
Realistic Combat/Naval Gunnery/TechTree Revision SubMod (v1.1) for Bsots (mod for Sots 1) http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=57039&p=555149#p555149

Alpha Centauri
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:30 pm

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by Alpha Centauri » Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:28 am

puglebugle wrote:Happy Birthday!

Thanks!!! :D

Alpha Centauri
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:30 pm

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by Alpha Centauri » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:10 am

I'm playing with a possibility with the armor vs. reflective coatings:

I've set it up so that you can have one minor, and one major.

so:

reflective + magno
or
improved reflective + poly silicates
or
reflective + improved reflective
or
poly + magno

It's a weird idea - but it does allow for a compromise position:

You can't have best + best, but you can have okay + best - one of each, or both of the same type!

It means you have some new level of anti AP armor (ploly + magno), but without any anti-laser, or you can have extreme anti-laser, but without any anti-ballistic.

Seems like a fun idea - and I'm playtesting it now...

puglebugle
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:04 pm

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by puglebugle » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:36 pm

Alpha Centauri wrote:I'm playing with a possibility with the armor vs. reflective coatings:

I've set it up so that you can have one minor, and one major.

so:

reflective + magno
or
improved reflective + poly silicates
or
reflective + improved reflective
or
poly + magno

It's a weird idea - but it does allow for a compromise position:

You can't have best + best, but you can have okay + best - one of each, or both of the same type!

It means you have some new level of anti AP armor (ploly + magno), but without any anti-laser, or you can have extreme anti-laser, but without any anti-ballistic.

Seems like a fun idea - and I'm playtesting it now...



I have also been thinking about it.
However: This creates various problems:
Bal weapons have commonly pene 1 or 0.9-1.2 and AP variants have around 2.
Basic bal armor has 1 while advanced 2.
Conclusion is that basic armor is still too effective vs basic bal weapons so AP weapons are better.
Combining basic and advanced armor gives 3.
Ap Bal weapons (still talking about Bsots) have max value of 2.5 (im saying here that if you want to implement this you will need to readjust ricochet values of most bal weapons. Or it will completely break weapons balance towards beams, plasma and missiles.)

I solved this In Ngun by: some bal weapons have more rico while some have less compared to Bsots. I readjusted most rico values of bal weapons (-0,1 +0,1 etc.) logically, based on size and type, (stormer, cannon, mass driver, sniper, heavy ones etc., same for AP ones) Ap weapons generally get more ...
Also the most important part: Armor values in Ngun are 0.9 and 1.8 and combination is 2.7 (compared to 1 2 and combined 3) strongest bal weapons in Ngun have 2.6 - 2.9 pene (to counter this)

I found that optimal values for bal weapons are 0.7 to 0.8 (small guns)- 1.0(standard cannon)-1.2(heavy gauss) 1.3 (heavy sniper) vs 0.9 rico armor
for AP variants its 1.7 (mini ap gaus)- 2.8 vs 1.8 (or 2.7 (0.9+1. 8 ))
(railgun has 2.9)

Lasers are another problem on their own. Im not exactly sure but phasers in Bsots can be ricocheted (they got 1 (red) 1.25 (green) -.....- until 2 (phaser) pene)
To shorten it. Reflectives would counter all pulsed laser types too hard.
I set reflectives in Ngun to 0.9 1.8 (same as bal armors) and
pene to 0.75 (red) 1.0 (green) to 1.75 (phaser) and added (2 heavy phaser) and (2.25 crazor) thus stacking multiple reflectives or having just basic reflective armor (IMO was too weak) is more streamlined = less all or nothing (and phasers are stronKK in Ngun so its ok that they get countered by 2.7)

This also comes nicely in touch with deflectors and reflectors. (2.00) (in Ngun)
Also: 2.7 (armor combination) is allowed only and only for DNs and grand menaces and big neutrals. (still Ngun)


Edit: According to my tests (i do not remember exactly!, Im only guessing here) using, 1.0 rico weapon vs 2.7 armor reduced damage by (80-90% ...) and using same weapon vs 1.8 armor reduced damage by 65-75% (Point is that the difference was not as critical as someone would expect but it was visible.)
Realistic Combat/Naval Gunnery/TechTree Revision SubMod (v1.1) for Bsots (mod for Sots 1) http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=57039&p=555149#p555149

Alpha Centauri
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:30 pm

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by Alpha Centauri » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:04 pm

Thanks for the info, pugle.

Yeah, I probably will drop the armor / reflectives to .9/1.8 reflectively. Or something...

I realize that the edge case of going armor + armor, or reflectives + reflectives is very strong... but it makes you very weak against the other weapon types.

So I'm not bothered by this too much. The AI will respond and counter your all armor ships with lasers / beams /etc.

I've already tweaked my ballistics to be -1, -1.1, -1.2, and -2, -2.2, and -2.4 for ballistic s/m/l, and ap s/m/l. But maybe I'll even drop the armors / reflectives a bit more - .8/1.6 respectively.

I'll see how it plays out...

User avatar
SpardaSon21
Posts: 1866
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:24 am

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by SpardaSon21 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:22 pm

Don't forget that impact angle also comes into play when it comes to deflection chances. Additionally, if you're that worried about plasma/beams becoming OP when armor is too strong, I'm pretty certain you can play around with weapon files to make it so plasma weapons have deflection chances like lasers and beams suffer from beamer damage nerf.

Alpha Centauri
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:30 pm

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by Alpha Centauri » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:09 pm

Here's the current change log for 2.5 (I'm still doing some final testing - and I may work with Warcat to do some more tech tree enhancements)

2.5:
^ Fixed:
Morrigi CR Barrage firing arcs
Morrigi Freighter, Mega-Freighter weapon icon placements
DE Minelayer Sat icon placements (all races)
Corrosive and Nanite mines now work properly (messy, like their missile counterparts, but they do work)
Human Spinal Mount shoots from the correct node (visuals are improved)
Flagship command requires huge construction
Many weapon icon placements fixed & made more flexible (more options)
Many ships firing arcs improved

^ Updated:
Tech Tree snapshot image (should be 100% accurate)

^ Added:
Fusion age start variant tech file
BTM script for choosing tech file
Many new triple barrel huge mount weapon variants
Mini-Torpedo weapons for bomber drones

^ Technology:
Dual mounts are all core techs now
Reduced tech costs and scaled them with a better curve
Sclaed tech costs of early technology to make early game flow better
Warheads start with conventional explosive, and then move to nukes
Nuclear Mines requires Nuclear Warheads (not the starting conventional warheads)
Autocannons require the underlying level of ballistics size tech (so light requires gauss, ACs require mass drivers, etc.)
Many weapon techs follow the principle that if you get the base technology, you'll get several more before another roll is made to see if you get the most advanced varieties
Means either you have a base tech or not, but you'll be able to flesh it out and improve it significantly before your scientists can't proceed (if they roll badly)
Advanced Sensors now require Fusion (same as advanced cloaking)
Small Fusion Drives now requires something that can benefit from it - bio-misiles, assault shuttles, drones
Deconstruction is now free (Ai and players were having a hard time finding repair - which is behind that)
Disabled commerce raiding (Ai wastes a ton of ships on pointless raiding that doesn't work worth a damn)

^ Weapons:
Reduced population damage by about 3/4 from ship based weapons (with a few obvious exceptions, such as the siege driver, which was dramatically increased)
Rebalanced the Siege Drive (imagine throwing an extinction level event asteroid at a world - with every shot)
Mines self-destruct as they used to (2 min timer) due to battlefield becoming utterly overwhelmed with them
Turret tracking is greatly reduced (so that this actually has some effect on whether weapons can fire or not)
PD weapons are no better than 1x turret speed (beam PD is .5 turret speed)
Enhanced Pulsed Laser visuals (and X-Ray in particular)
Photon torpedos
get 1,2,4 shots for type I, II, III
have some armor penetration for type II and type III
Disruptor line is a bit less damaging, but has stronger EMP effects
Revamped the autocannon line
made the costs much more reasonable
as long ranged as standard ballistics
as poor accuracy as standard ballistics
have less ricochet as standard ballistics
scaled the ROF to be fastest for the light AC, and get slower with size, which gives a better asthetic visually (and doesn't crush your frame rates as badly)
improved the sound effects
Enhanced shotgun PD (but ballistic PD is just... not any good at shooting down small targets!)
Added triple barrel huge weapons for huge (aka projector) mounts
triple ballistic cannons is now a huge mount
triple energy cannons (comes with with dual energy cannons)
triple beam weapons (comes with dual beam weapons such as positron beam, etc.)
Added dedicated mini-torpedos
generally shoot 2x as often, but do 1/3 the damage (hence 2/3 as powerful as a standard torp)
only allowed to be mounted on bomber drones
Improved Shotgun PD

^ Ships:
Ships are -20% health
Liir are -20% health more than everyone else, making them truly the glass cannons that they're supossed to be
Stations now require maintainance
DE -> [S]
CR -> [L]
DN -> [H]
DNWar -> Broadside
Ai option for a bridge section increases the section's cost by 2x
Ships can have deflective and reflective enhancements simultaneously
Shileds are more extreme (fast shields are really fast, but really low stopping power vs. heavy shields are slow, but quite high stopping power)
Scanner Satts no longer allow Quantum Chaff or Jammer options
DeepScan bridge no longer allow Quantum Chaff or Jammer options
Deep Scan mission no longer allows Jammer or Quantum Chaff as options (made no sense on DE)

^ Drones
Bomber Drones now have dedicated mini-torpedo mounts and weapons
So what you can place on a bomber drone makes much more sense now
They're shorter ranged than their full ship based counterparts
Seeking mini-torps move faster but explode much sooner
All mounts changed to strafe
Hence missiles are never allowed (except for bomber drones)
Firing arcs for drones has been massively narrowed (they should never have been able to fire sideways out of their fixed mounts)
This may help SOTS point the drones at their targets when shooting!

^ Encounters:
The galaxy is a bit rougher in general

^ Maintanance:
Greatly incrased maintainance costs to better balance the economy:
ship class bsots cost vanilla cost
----------------- ---------- ------------
[S] satellite $250 $100
[L] satellite $750 $500
[H] satellite $1,500 $1,000
[S] ship $3,000 $500
[L] ship $15,000 $3,000
[H] ship $45,000 $15,000
[H] flagship $60,000 $15,000
Asteroid Monitor $10,000 $0
Trade Station $0 $15,000
Habitat Station $0 $15,000
Science Station $10,000 $15,000
Sensor Station $10,000 $15,000
Command Station $10,000 $15,000
Ship Yard $50,000 $15,000

^ Thanks:
To Puglebuble's Ngen mod for some of these ideas (especially reduced turret tracking)
Last edited by Alpha Centauri on Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Alpha Centauri
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:30 pm

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by Alpha Centauri » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:15 pm

Here's the current tech tree:
Image

User avatar
BlueTemplar
Posts: 3131
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:15 am

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by BlueTemplar » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:26 am

Sounds interesting!

What are your recommended game settings, especially for the star count, so as to see some DN/AM before the game ends?

I generally play SotS1 on 50% economy, 150% research, with 80 stars for 8 players. And with +20% resources in the case of Bsots, because if there's something more annoying than the freighter mini-game, that's the mini game of having to assemble a fleet from multiple planets!
Last edited by BlueTemplar on Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

puglebugle
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:04 pm

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by puglebugle » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:02 am

Alpha Centauri wrote:Here's the current change log for 2.5 .....


Interesting!! :D Gj.

SpardaSon21 wrote:Dont forget impact angle .....


Yes I know about impact angle.
Yes plasma can be substituted for bal laser type. But IMO killing plasma (like idea) for this reason (mentioned) is a bad idea. For example: in Ngun instead of Antimatter cannons there are Matterwave (cant remember exact name) cannons which are ballistic weapons and can be deflected. And you can have only polarized antimatter plasma cannons (which deal pure damage but are obviously weaker).
Realistic Combat/Naval Gunnery/TechTree Revision SubMod (v1.1) for Bsots (mod for Sots 1) http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=57039&p=555149#p555149

Post Reply

Return to “Modding”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests