BSOTS 2.5a (Official BSots Thread)

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Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:57 pm

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by SavageV » Thu May 04, 2017 3:51 am

Much of the game is hard-coded. I'm not surprised you've run into difficulty with stations. The AI is weaker than humans for a great many reasons we can't fix. At least with SOTS2 you can rewrite the AI to fix issues.

Alpha Centauri
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:30 pm

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by Alpha Centauri » Thu May 04, 2017 4:36 am

I'm testing all of my latest changes - having rescaled back towards vanilla in several areas because the Ai just was not cutting it.

In my current game, all of the Ai's, even Zuul, are playing reasonably strong. I'm usually #1 long before now, and the game is looking "done" without really getting started, typically.

But I'm in 3-4th place out of 8 total on difficult. It's challenging without being overwhelming (so far). The early game isn't as interesting with the costs toned down a bit, but it is way easier to keep moving forward (not stagnating or having to make difficult choices financially).

But, hey, the Ai actually puts up a real fight, and could win. So... fair trade. Just - too bad they can't handle a leaner economy. Or build more stations. Or both.

Still - in my previous games, similar settings, I'd be #1 in everything but tech. So even on hard, they couldn't expand in order to make their economies grow. Now, they're expanding as fast or faster than I am (I was #3 in colonies, now #2 - and the galaxy is pretty much claimed - there are major wars, but the core powers haven't started real bloodshed in the center of the spiral yet - more against early neighbors that decided they were eternal enemies.

So I'll be curious to see if they keep up or outpace me. I think I'm #2 for colonies, and #4 for economy despite building up trade networks everywhere and using stations everywhere. so, ... it's a real game.

Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:57 pm

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by SavageV » Thu May 04, 2017 6:08 am

Sounds like a miracle to me. I'll give it a try sometime soon, maybe with your latest tweaks.

Alpha Centauri
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:30 pm

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by Alpha Centauri » Thu May 04, 2017 3:00 pm

Wait for 2.5a.

I released 2.5 for puglebugle mostly. But it's not balanced worth a damn. Some great ideas are in it - but it doesn't work well (multiplayer would be fine - since humans can think - but the Ai just stagnates).

EDIT: HOLY SMOKES! Dreads are NASTY now! lol.
Gone are the days of the superiority of sticking with Cruisers. NO freaking way, anymore. Dreads EAT cruisers.

I probably need better huge mount 3d models - they're a bit on the large size making them oversized targets. But even losing several during a battle, the three dreads ate my 15 cruisers until I just retreated (I only had to face 2 at a time, and managed to kill one - waaaaay worse than pre- oversizing their weapons).

They are definitely massive dangerous gunships now.

I may need to balance things more- but fundamentally I am no longer needing to buff them.

Delta of Isaire
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Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 4:22 pm

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by Delta of Isaire » Sat May 13, 2017 12:50 pm

SOTS is getting old, but I still find myself attracted back to it. There is just no other space 4X game with a combat system anywhere near as good. Or even non-space games for that matter. Heck, many so-called "4X" games put a lot of emphasis on Empire-building, and they seem to use that as an excuse to use a lame, oversimplified combat system.

BSOTS seems like a really awesome mod. I haven't played it yet, but what I've read in this topic and the BSOTS 2.1 topic is very promising. It smooths out some of the wrinkles in the vanilla game, while also adding a bunch of great new stuff. Hopefully I can wait to try it until a "finished" version of 2.5 is released. Playing 2.1 now would make me feel like I'm missing out, while 2.5 still needs to be properly balanced.

I like how you are making Dreads more competitive with Cruisers. Ideally (imho) they will become equally matched. DN and CR tactics differ quite a bit so I'd like to be able to use both effectively, instead of DNs making CRs obsolete. But since the AI is obsessed with DNs, they should definitely be powerful.

A few questions:
1. What are Autocannons like? What role do they fill?

2. In vanilla, missiles are only really viable early on, because their damage caps out early (AM warheads can be researched in Fission era!) and later in the game missile DPS is just way too low compared to all the Fusion/Antimatter weapons. Is this any different in BSOTS?

3. The various lines of dual cannons, are those medium mount weapons? And what about the heavy Phaser and Heavy Pulsed Phaser?

4. Vanilla lacks a wide variety of turreted long-range weapons. The only guns with appreciably long range are the sniper cannon (only useful early on) and the heavy plasma cannon series (which are large mounts). I am guessing/hoping that the new Sniper Cannon variants add some long-range ballistic options for medium and large mounts. Now the question: does BSOTS have a medium-mount energy weapon with long range? Maybe the dual plasma cannon line?

Alpha Centauri
Posts: 812
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:30 pm

Re: BSOTS 2.5

Post by Alpha Centauri » Tue May 16, 2017 1:47 am

1. Autocannons I struggle with - I like the concept - but ultimately the stormers are probably better overall. You'd have to try them to see for yourself - basically a continuously firing ballistic cannon with intrinsic AP (less than real AP cannons).

2. Warheads can't all be researched early. You might get the link to one era early - so Fusion warheads may be available in fission, and AM in fusion - if you're lucky.
There are dual mount missile launchers, and rapid fire missiles with a rapid fire launcher. They're definitely a solid weapon throughout the game, depending on what you're up against.

3. Dual versions of things are always for the same size class as the base weapon. In BSOTS there is no "if you put a small in a medium mount, you get dual cannon variety." Rather, you must research the dual to get the dual. Putting a small in a large is just wasting a large on a small.
The firepower of dual varieties is scaled to be 1.5x a single cannon base version. They fire 2x rounds every 1.3333x as slowly.

4. Almost all weapons are longer ranged in BSOTS than in vanilla. However - they're not super long ranged. Think +33 to +50% range in general, with sensors likewise improved to give you the ability to see that much further.

There are now triple cannon varieties of most weapons that are used for huge mounts (which are available mostly on Huge ships, including Asteroid Monitors, and the projector section for Large ships).

These huge mount weapons are definitely considerably longer range, and fire 3x rounds at a whack. They're essentially battleship class heavy cannons.

Everything about the weapons and economy have been tweaked - stations are available much earlier and are much cheaper to build - being a way to build out your empire and make some worlds production focused (ship yards) or others trade centers, and others science boosters. Trade uses 1 ship = 1 trade route. Less micromanagement (and there is only two types of trade ships - standard, and Q, both of which produce the same trade - but Q freighters cost more and take longer to build since they have more weapons).

I'm uploading 2.5a now. Should be available by the time you read this. I'll put a link both in this thread and my main BSOTS thread. 2.5a is much more polished than 2.5 was - I released that kind of prematurely.

You might want to look at trying the variant .tech files - there's one for fusion start which I really enjoy (give everyone like 5 starting worlds, 2m in cash, and experience a very different game.

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