Hot ships

It has to be official™. It has its own forum.

Moderator: CatchCharyou

Post Reply
User avatar
Glacialis
Zuul Survivor
Zuul Survivor
Posts: 2250
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:33 pm

Hot ships

Post by Glacialis » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:20 pm

What are the implications if the interior temperature of their ships is hot -- say, 1500F/800C?

I had a big post written up a few weeks ago with lots of my own thoughts on the matter but my machine ate it and I've been too ticked to start the topic again. :p
nickersonm wrote:How did you get that out of Mecron saying the exact opposite!?

Image
Image

User avatar
Eleahen
Doomsayer
Posts: 3752
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:03 pm

Re: Hot ships

Post by Eleahen » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:27 pm

For a start:

Much harder to board.

Have to spend more power than other races to maintain onboard temperature.

User avatar
Glacialis
Zuul Survivor
Zuul Survivor
Posts: 2250
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:33 pm

Re: Hot ships

Post by Glacialis » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:05 pm

Boarding, aye. Then again, no tricks like reactor plasma to fend off boarders or plasma flamethrowers being ticklish. if you're comfy at 72F and I prefer 1500F, plasma/fusion/etc are still *far* hotter. Maybe no one else thought about these things but I did and had to talk some sense into me.

Temperature...not so much.

Space is not a good conductor of heat. Bleeding heat is something you want. Weapons fire, especially energy weapons, cause heat buildup. Dissipating it is a challenge for engineers.

Getting a hotter ship is easy for races that vent reactor plasma. Drives that don't, like Liir and Morrigi, may or may not generate heat from their drive system but unless they use cold fusion the reactor can still readily heat things up.
nickersonm wrote:How did you get that out of Mecron saying the exact opposite!?

Image
Image

User avatar
Eleahen
Doomsayer
Posts: 3752
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:03 pm

Re: Hot ships

Post by Eleahen » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:28 pm

Glacialis wrote:Temperature...not so much.

Space is not a good conductor of heat. Bleeding heat is something you want. Weapons fire, especially energy weapons, cause heat buildup. Dissipating it is a challenge for engineers.

Getting a hotter ship is easy for races that vent reactor plasma. Drives that don't, like Liir and Morrigi, may or may not generate heat from their drive system but unless they use cold fusion the reactor can still readily heat things up.

Agree on all points - just saying that they need that more than others.

User avatar
Glacialis
Zuul Survivor
Zuul Survivor
Posts: 2250
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:33 pm

Re: Hot ships

Post by Glacialis » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:56 pm

True, but with reactors they could heat it up pretty easily. For that matter, once it's hot, it'll probably stay hot. I think the biggest impact mentioned thus far will be boarding, both them to cold ships and others to theirs.

What about the equipment? Would their ship function any better, worse, or just differently? Not asking to be a pain, these are things I think we should tackle but I don't have answers for right now.
nickersonm wrote:How did you get that out of Mecron saying the exact opposite!?

Image
Image

User avatar
Eleahen
Doomsayer
Posts: 3752
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:03 pm

Re: Hot ships

Post by Eleahen » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:11 pm

They managed to build it - they should have all of the needed materials and equipment. Not sure about the implications.

User avatar
Coyote27
Posts: 2958
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:13 am

Re: Hot ships

Post by Coyote27 » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:55 pm

Stealth might be a serious challenge for them.
"In the absence of any orders, go find something and kill it." -Erwin Rommel

User avatar
Muzzy
Posts: 342
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:15 am

Re: Hot ships

Post by Muzzy » Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:40 am

Poor poor computers. All that heat cannot be nice to the cpus.
Image

Verbreiten Sie bösartig Glee

User avatar
Glacialis
Zuul Survivor
Zuul Survivor
Posts: 2250
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:33 pm

Re: Hot ships

Post by Glacialis » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:24 pm

As space isn't the best of conductors of heat, getting rid of heat could be a problem for them. However, if things can work on their homeworld then they've found a way to make systems work in high heat. It's figuring out the implications of that fact that makes for interesting thoughts.
nickersonm wrote:How did you get that out of Mecron saying the exact opposite!?

Image
Image

User avatar
mango
Ante Priore Wangum
Posts: 1092
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:22 pm

Re: Hot ships

Post by mango » Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:28 pm

Implications like immunity to boarding pods for example? Since the inside of the ship is molten material.

If the engine section is destroyed their ships cannot sustain their temperature and over strategic time (not tactical battle time) they freeze and fracture and are destroyed ie if engine is not repaired in the next turn the ship is lost.

Space is cold and heat is lost through infra red radiation. Would explain why their ships dont glow all over, they must use some kind of reflective shielding to keep the heat in, so an automatic race bonus there of intrinsic lvl1 reflective armor shielding and maybe innate point absorber capabilities for all ships from the outset. Maybe lvl 2 reflective armor gives them the ability to survive two turns without engine. Reflective armor tree is 100% for them.

When they explode they might produce a mass of glowing globules which can do damage to non crystal races but not to other crystal ships.

If they destroy another race crystal ship or are present at the destruction of their own crystal ship they get a free refuel of a fraction of the fuel content of the destroyed ship distributed among their number.

Also a refuel from destroyed fission powered non crystal ships only (ie not fusion or antimatter non crystal ships) and then only if they are using fission themselves, as they can absorb the isotopes.

Their combat ships can refuel from asteroid belt planets in the same way as refineries. Takes a strat turn.

Also another implication of heat is hazard zone, now if they are a crystalline race why not have them evolved to live underground in the molten mantle layer of a planet? Smaller population but larger resource base.

Question is what do they do to planets they inhabit? Increase the number of volcanoes where they burrow into the crust and where their ships enter and leave.

This cant be good for other races as it would ruin ecology so they would have a problem sharing planets, ie no cohabiting with carbon based life but they could coexist with AI rebellion.

They have a special relationship with silicoids so they dont get attacked like Morrigi have with colony traps, derelicts and asteroid monitors. Maybe they are the original source of silicoids. Can take over a silicoid hive in the same way as other races take over asteroid monitors, ie by researching that planet. This gives them an instant refuel base as well.

Just a few ideas. What do you think, is that going along the right lines?

User avatar
Glacialis
Zuul Survivor
Zuul Survivor
Posts: 2250
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:33 pm

Re: Hot ships

Post by Glacialis » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:24 pm

I really appreciate that you've put so much thought into this, mango. :) I do have to counter some of your arguments however.

The number one being that space is cold. It is, but that's because there aren't many atoms for you to bump up against. Heat in an atmosphere is transferred most efficiently by convection -- for example, air molecules coming into contact with a car's radiator and cooling it down. In space, the car wouldn't have enough molecules hitting the radiator to make much of a difference. Radiation works, yes, but not at the rate that us atmosphere-dwelling critters might expect. :)

So in actuality, they would have a little bit of an easier time with heat they can't dissipate because they're used to higher ambient temperatures. The problem is that many bits of technology work best when cold. They might have trouble with those technologies, or conversely the unique challenges they face might make them the cooling experts of the known galaxy.

Living below ground makes sense, but not burrowing into the mantle or bathing in magma. Their comfortable temperature range might be (for example) 1500-1700 degrees Fahrenheit, but that's an awfully narrow temperature range -- just like what humans can survive. A few writeups ago I'd suggested that their planets have a lot of volcanic activity but we have to approach that very carefully. For a species that needs light to survive, volcanoes might not be their best friends. I'm no expert so please take this with a grain of salt, but there might exist volcanoes that spew things into the air that don't necessarily block sunlight or any other electromagnetic frequencies that they need. Something we need to explore more thoroughly.

I'm intrigued by the thought of "hacking" Silicoid hives, but I think they already have an established history in the SotS universe. The fan race project won't be able to alter any of that so we need to be self-contained. Story reasons aside, it would take quite a bit of coding resources to put that into the game. Once we get all of the coding requests in for things that we must have, we can ask about things we would like. This is definitely one of those I think. :)

Free refining at asteroid belts...hmm. I think they would still need the equipment and thus a refinery ship, but perhaps they do so more efficiently? Assuming there's a value in a text file somewhere that determines the rate at which permanent resources are converted to fuel then it's trivial to change. I'm not expert modder, but I don't recall having seen something like that in my .gob delving. Can anyone confirm?

I'm sorry to have to reply in the negative to so many of your ideas, but that's what we need: a give-and-take of ideas and discussion. Please don't take any of this as "your ideas are crap", clearly you're creative enough to come up with them in the first place. Just keep on throwing ideas on the fan race forum here! :)
nickersonm wrote:How did you get that out of Mecron saying the exact opposite!?

Image
Image

User avatar
mango
Ante Priore Wangum
Posts: 1092
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:22 pm

Re: Hot ships

Post by mango » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:51 pm

Glacialis, I think you will find blackbody radiation is a potent source of heat loss in space let alone glowingredhotbody radiation. :lol:

The Apollo 13 crew endured temperatures at or below freezing for the bulk of the return flight, as well as many other hardships.


And that was while they were travelling in direct sunlight... 8)

User avatar
Coyote27
Posts: 2958
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:13 am

Re: Hot ships

Post by Coyote27 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:58 pm

While I like the idea of being immune to boarding pods (look out, Zuulies!) I don't know how easy that would be to implement.
Being guaranteed reflective armor (and probably hardened electronics) would be perfectly fine, but I don't like any built-in weirdness associated with it, not only because it requires extra work but because I don't think it makes that much sense.

What effect would high temperature have on their computer tech? I was thinking that being silicon-based they might be very talented with electronics, but that might not be the case at all due to the difficulties of building microchips that function for them. What if they're stuck with vacuum-tube level electronics?
"In the absence of any orders, go find something and kill it." -Erwin Rommel

User avatar
Glacialis
Zuul Survivor
Zuul Survivor
Posts: 2250
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:33 pm

Re: Hot ships

Post by Glacialis » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:39 am

The Apollo crews also didn't have the problem of getting rid of the kind of heat a warship in space would. No nuclear reactor capable of producing thrust for combat, no weapons that produce heat as a side-effect, etc. I'm not saying that blackbody radiation isn't an effective means of energy transfer. It is. It's the rate at which that energy dissipates that is the problem -- too slow.

If you had structures on your ship designed to radiate heat that would go a long way towards solving the problem. However, SotSverse ships aren't built like that. They probably figured out that if they have them, and someone shoots them off, they are absolutely screwed.

A warship in space of the kind SotS demonstrates will require several generations of cooling techniques beyond what we know now. Imagine the excess heat produced by your ordinary weapons-grade Red Lasers. :) Now, can you dissipate that heat, completely, before the next shot? If yes, how long can you keep doing it for? If no...well, you can only fire so many times before you fry yourself.

Dissipating heat in a combat situation is a problem. The way I see it, if your natural ambient temperature is a lot higher then you have two options. One, you have a lot of heat capacity because hey, you're used to dealing with these problems. Two, it makes you really nervous. What if the rockbugs aren't any better engineers than SotSverse humans? Can those same humans design a starship with an internal ambient of 1600 degrees Farenheit? I'm thinking they can't, and I don't think the rockbugs are such geniuses that they can do it without making significant breakthroughs, or having a really hard time with it.
nickersonm wrote:How did you get that out of Mecron saying the exact opposite!?

Image
Image

User avatar
mango
Ante Priore Wangum
Posts: 1092
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:22 pm

Re: Hot ships

Post by mango » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:46 am

too slow


not ! (go ask a physicist, seriously)


coyote I read somewhere someone suggested these silicon types actually grew their ships around them, so electronics would be the same kind of processing as whatever they use for a nervous system, analogous to bioneural computers in terran fantasy-technology.

Post Reply

Return to “The Official Fan Mod Race”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests