Offical: First opportunity to make a Fan Made MOD Race

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MaryG
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Post by MaryG » Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:22 am

those i can do! :)

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Zabaron
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Post by Zabaron » Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:36 am

Ooh, I never thought about using the old HW megaship as inpiration. I like it! It looks like it came from a planet that would be these critters' home, and the mechanical/rock blend is great. Obviously the design wouldn't work too well in SotS, but the concept works well for this race (have we decided on a name for them yet?).

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Covenant
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Post by Covenant » Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:46 am

Glad I could be of service! I'm not sure about names yet, that's something that could be useful to figure out.

As an aside, Mary, how'd you make such nice asteroid textures? It doesn't look procedural. Did you paint it yourself or does it come with something? I haven't applied color to mine yet mostly because of that, but I might do some paint-on-image such. I just wish I had a wacom to do it with.

But anyway, the T-Mat Megaship really is a wonderful example of a crystal megalith object with a lot of 'mechanical bits' on it. I could make a few concepts based on that kind of a design.

Afterall, if we assume that they use asteroids for a building material, they'd still need shape the asteroid properly (so they know how to manage the maneuvering thrusters) and put stuff on the outside, such as armor and weaponry. If the mission section is a big fat asteroid chunk, and the command and engine sections are relatively small compared to the rocky core, we still get a good feel for it being uniquely alien while also having efficency.

As was mentioned, we could have big crystals within, like, mechanical housings or other such things. The asteroid could be girdled by big iron plates or trusses, and look like it's been 'shaped'. If they are harvesting asteroids they probably want the nickel-iron part to use as a hull, not the rocky part.

Afterall, look how fast SOTS weapons blow asteroids apart. If we made ships that were just weapons on an asteroid, they'd theoretically be as easily dismembered.

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MaryG
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Post by MaryG » Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:21 am

ok, a quick try at a more mechanical ship. still has a lot of crystal, but is bound by metal and is much more organized.

Image

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Gakl
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Post by Gakl » Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:55 am

MaryG wrote:ok, a quick try at a more mechanical ship. still has a lot of crystal, but is bound by metal and is much more organized.

<snip images shown above>


Love the images, dude!

They'd look great as initial fission-tech ships.

Still, I envisioned more advanced ships looking a bit more menacing. Much more pointy crystals sticking out, largely from the front of the ships, like a bayonette. Reflective coating making the ships' mottled rock-ish exterior look more shiny, but still being slightly mottled.


For a bit more diversion into probing the creatures native environment and psychology/physiology.

I envisioned them being a bit more similar to the Mycon (for those who are Star Control fans), though less psychotically un-altruistic. They may have several very diverse parts of life.

Early: "budding phase." Breaking off from what would be very nearly a "group mind."* Described ater. 0-50

Mid: "Motile" phase. They break off of the main city-structures on the planet. they wander about, become vastly independent of the group mind. They would look much like the really neat insectoid-type thing that erdik? drew. (not sure who actually did this picture). 50-1500 years

Late: The motile eventually grows bored of its life wandering around the planet/galaxy. Finds a mate. Grows back into the city structure and begins creating its own spire, preparing for the reproductive phase of its life. Begins creating new buds and nurturing them, picking out the best minds for motiles, the rest being reabsorbed.
200->50,000

Final: Senescence. Growth into slow-thought group mind of entire society. Thousands of years old at youngest. Similar to liir in ability to store all motile memories as well, but lives on a completely different time scale.
50,00+
Millions+ at oldest? Very slow thought, but with nearly unlimited capacity for thought. Still has limited reproductive capacity. Typically, considered to be a duty in times of need.
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Covenant
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Post by Covenant » Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:51 am

I wish I had a wacom. I drew some with the mouse though, sketching out a rough design for a ship type that's built around an asteroid rather than actually built OUT of one.

I had a model of something similar but it crashed and there's no Autosave funtion. The fin in the back is the engine section and the V in the front would be the command section. There'd be a variety of gizmos involved, but that's just a basic concept.

Not happy with the colors and such, but just an idea of how you needn't actually be so literal with 'asteroid ship'. If people like the idea I can redo it.

Image

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MaryG
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Post by MaryG » Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:03 pm

heres just a random thought.... maybe the way this race got star travel, was that the other 4 races fought over the planet and several ships crashed, or made emergency landings? the crews of course couldnt survive the env. but the ships could :)

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Post by ZedF » Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:16 pm

I'd rather not. We already had a first contact gone wrong scenario (humans) and another race whose drive technology was developed as a result of reverse engineering someone else's (Liir). These guys have a unique drive type; doesn't seem likely that a fight between everyone else over the planet and crashing ships into it would have precipitated the development of their tech. Besides, wouldn't the winner of that fight just have come back to claim the planet?

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Blazer
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Post by Blazer » Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:34 pm

Mary, I like your design very much, I just think it's a little too heavy on the crystal structure. Maybe limit the use of crystals to conduits and windows. Just a thought.

Cov, Your's is also very interesting to me, I wouldn't mind seeing where you can take it.
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Glacialis
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Post by Glacialis » Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:09 pm

Y'know, Pleb did say in his longish writeup that they use metals aplenty. Nothing wrong with that, but the crystalline look is what's going to set their ships apart, right? Just because they might be grown doesn't mean that that growth process is random or even organic. They could easily use the same structures over and over again.
nickersonm wrote:How did you get that out of Mecron saying the exact opposite!?

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Image

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erdrik
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Post by erdrik » Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:18 pm

I don't see crystals as being any part of the main structure. They are simply not durable enough. If anything I see crystals being used for sensitive equipment, like Deep Scanners, cloaking, jamming, ect. And for their FTL Engines.

Which would leave a normal metal alloy for the actual structure of the ship, or normal metal alloy attached to a refined and shaped asteroid base.

I actualy like the HW ship Cov posted.
Cool Crystal Ship

I would suggest something like that only replace the crystal bits with a refined and shaped rocky style texture. Then attach crystal based devices for the Deep Scan, ect, and FTL engines.

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CatchCharyou
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Post by CatchCharyou » Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:35 pm

MaryG wrote:ok, a quick try at a more mechanical ship. still has a lot of crystal, but is bound by metal and is much more organized. [clipped images]


I really like that particular design. That sort of style would be my vote- I prefer a pretty good mix of "crystal" and "manufactured" myself- I alos like Silvaril's suggestion about a crystalline base with heavy manufactured superstructures built upon it.

And hey, Unwashed, Covenant. I know you have rather conflicting ideas about how the race should work. It's true, Cov, that he doesn't have the "authority" to order you to do it they way Unwashed wants, but it seems a little harsh the way you threw that out there. Let's be nice. On the other hand, Unwashed, Cov is also right that while this is your brainchild, with multiple imputs from all the important people making this work, it's not likely it'll turn out exactly the way you like it. But hopefully it will turn out as something you'll be happy and even proud of.

Lastly, on the crystal debate, I know it's not "scientific" that ships be built out of crystal, but this is sci-fi! Human starships are made out of materials like plassteel and tritanium alloys and so on. All a crystal is is an ordered structure of an element or combination of elements, right? Personally I don't see why with some sci-fi based tech couldn't manipulate various materials into crystalline structures with important spacefaring qualities, like being durable, lightweight, radiation screens, etc. I just bring this up because I do think making this race more unique and "against the mold" is something where should strife for. Cov, you clearly have a great grasp of real science and potential future tech. That's a really great set of knowledge to bring to the table, but it can be a little limiting too. Plasma cannons in SotS are pretty unrealistic. They're still a hell of a lot of fun. I don't mean this to be a harsh admonishment to either of you, so please don't take this personally. We all have our ideas how this ought to work, but let's remember that we're going to be working together, and let's play nice. This is for the fun of it. :D
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Covenant
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Post by Covenant » Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:49 pm

Ever the consummate diplomat.

I'm sorry for sounding harsh, Pleb. I just wanted to impress upon everyone that we should be working as a team. I won't let real science get in the way, but I do strongly feel that it would be inappropriate for us to do something as far out into fiction as 'grown crystal' ships. It just doesn't make any sense, and destroys the sense of immersion for me.

If that's what everyone wanted, I'd be okay with it, but I just wanted to make clear that it's unfair to take such an authoritarian tone.

Oh, and also, I'm not against crystalline hull components or using crystal chunks as parts of their ships. The Hivers and Tarka and Liir can get away with decorating their ships, so our rock dudes can too. I'm against saying that their ships are 'grown' or a giant wad of crystal...

...because ships are predominatly computers, reactors, electronics, atmospherics, and so on. There's really not too much hull involved. To 'grow' a ship you'd need to be able to 'grow' all the computers, engines, and air scrubbers out of crystal too. Seems a little unlikely and way too complicated. Growing the hull, if so desired, is not unreasonable. But the ship itself is not crystal. It's a distinction that's important to make.

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Gakl
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Post by Gakl » Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:07 am

MaryG wrote:heres just a random thought.... maybe the way this race got star travel, was that the other 4 races fought over the planet and several ships crashed, or made emergency landings? the crews of course couldnt survive the env. but the ships could :)


I was actually considering that in the Humans showing up out of nowhere, would suddenly make them aware of a facet of the universe they hadn't known about. Maybe they gleaned some insight, but in that created something new and unique? Its principles related to nodes, but operating completely and independent of them.

They would have to develop the physics for themselves. I think they may have developed their system very very heavily. On the other hand, they're just learning FTL just from observation, so I envision it being a bit rudimentary, but with more tactical protential.
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Black Science -- http://www.myspace.com/blacksciencemusic
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A New Mastery of Light (2008)
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Unwashed_Pleb
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Post by Unwashed_Pleb » Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:44 am

Don't sweat it covenant, but when you think about it, growth of the ships makes just as much sense as building one when it comes to this race. By only having a single consciousness running everything, losses are kept to a minimum since their growth cycle is slow, and it eliminates communication problems between other beings in the ship. For them, it works.

if your concerned about the durability of crystals, perhaps you should think about the incredibly stable crystalline compounds that metal makes up. Or substances like diamond or silicon. Carbon nano-tubes are technically crystalline in formation. Metals and nonmetals can form crystals people :)


Great work and great association to the T-mat :)
Plebeian. Adj.
1. Of, belonging to, or characteristic of commoners.
2. Unrefined or coarse in nature or manner; common or vulgar: plebeian tastes.

Unwashed. Adj.
1. Unclean
2. Plebeian: the unwashed masses.

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