Story + Gameplay - Engine 3

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silvaril
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Only gots 1.2.2.... ;p

Post by silvaril » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:49 pm

Heya

Humans do 13 at Fusion.

Their non-core Engine-3 Tech lets them do 15 at AM.

With a roughly 90% chance of obtaining it.
( I haven't seen the BoB tech tree )
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Post by Darloth » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:01 am

Didn't they make it core in one of the patches? Or maybe BoB?

I seem to remember human players bitching for months until they did... or maybe the bitching just dried up and they stood their ground? :)

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erdrik
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Post by erdrik » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:30 am

according to the gob 1.4.1 Node Pathing = 90%

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Slasher
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Post by Slasher » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:10 am

Even without node pathing, humans are still faster than Tarkans.

Back on topic though. Won't a 3-3 engine on a ship escorted by a capacitor cruiser have an effective speed of 15 ly per turn, if it doesn't have to wait a turn to recharge every time it moves?
Am I the only one who thinks thats just a little over the top in terms of speed?
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Glacialis
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Post by Glacialis » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:28 pm

I didn't know the capacitor cruisers were in? I had thought that idea morphed into planetary capacitors/processors. Since IIRC it was originally my idea, I like to think I kept good track of it. :)

As an aside, I'm still pushing the Horizon drive as the core engine mechanic. Once we get the engine fluff nailed down we can more effectively discuss abilities for advanced drive systems we haven't already figured out.
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Jandor
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Post by Jandor » Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:56 pm

There not in, it's just making something of a comeback as the Engine 3 final gimmick ;) . 15 ly is excessive on the offensive. As I said, it will need serious play testing to find what is balanced and what is not.
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Post by ZedF » Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:44 pm

Jandor wrote:But with Planetary Capacitors and possibly Cruiser Capacitors they might end being fast to an unbalanced degree.

The consensus last time we talked about this was that Planetary Capacitance would likely be enough to get their strategic speed to desired levels, without upping their jump distance. I would stick with the original table until it's demonstrated that that's not good enough.

The focus on these guys is supposed to be that they are very good at sneak attacks, but not so fast on overall strategic speed. Humans can go 15 for a sneak attack but have to follow natural node lines, which cuts that number down a significant amount. Everyone else goes 12 or less for a sneak attack. Having a single jump maximum of 13 sounds about right in the AM era with planetary capacitance making them go 13 just about every turn as long as they are in friendly space.

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Re: Story + Gameplay - Engine 3

Post by kknd2 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:44 am

with the advanced calculation engines of our new drive systems, we can get places no faster then before.
"so how is it an improvement?"
Physics calculations are universal, are they not? why not divert that processing power into targeting and menuver calculations?.
"So their new drive tech just makes their ships shoot more accurately? or turn faster?"
in essence, one of the bigist issues of fighting in space is calculating shots accurately enough to hit a target so far away, its so bad it can slow down the rate of fire on weapons.
"So does it add accuracy, turning rate, or fire rate?"
Thats for the modders to decide, but the potental use of the immense computing power just sitting around in tactical combat with their drives presents a rather unique opportunity.
The Liir says the glass is half full.
The Hiver says the glass is half empty.
While they argue about it, the Zuul comes along, drinks what's left, and removes all doubt. - KKND2

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Re: Story + Gameplay - Engine 3

Post by tpfleming12 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:08 pm

The rockbug drive is beginning to sound a little like the drive used in the battletech universe. With the clans (tech3) getting a capacitor that allows either 2 jumps in rapid succesion or a jump and with a possibility of a retreat jump

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Glacialis
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Re: Story + Gameplay - Engine 3

Post by Glacialis » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:07 pm

I'm only passingly familiar with BT, and not at all with respect to BT's space system. I'm not shy about saying that this makes me feel better about all this though. :) BT rocks!
nickersonm wrote:How did you get that out of Mecron saying the exact opposite!?

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mango
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Re: Story + Gameplay - Engine 3

Post by mango » Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:57 am

Just wanted to point out the Morrigi level 3 power plus level 3 drive tech and grav synergy and DN gravboat and a full fleet has an immense speed of 20 and that seems to work quite well. The balancing effect being that you have to have a synergy of multiple expensive drive techs and hardware to achieve that. I dont think its necessarily the case that because its fun its bad. You just have to make sure its balanced.

I think the idea of charging over turns to achieve longer jumps is a great idea. But I would suggest the longer the jump the less accurate as with hiver, so with all top techs they could perhaps jump say 50 by charging a turn but then the defender would get a one turn warning they were coming when they materialise inside scanner range but one turn away from the planet they were attacking.

If you think about it that move would take three turns and in the same time you could take a Morrigi top tier fleet a distance of 60 and still be well ouside deep scan range the turn before arrival.

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AnarchCassius
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Re: Story + Gameplay - Engine 3

Post by AnarchCassius » Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:51 pm

I like the Planetary Capacitors a lot more then the Cruiser ones. It's vaguely like the Hivers but not quite the same as anything another race has. Cruisers would basically eliminate their quirk whereas Planetary ones put another twist on it.

Their drive seems to be closest to the Hivers, with Liir and VN coming a close second. From a Hiver's point of view they take their gates with them and have to do setup each time... and somehow avoid the need for a grav well. From a Liir POV they make bigger jumps at a very slow rate and again ignore gravitational effects. The Tarka too avoid gravity effects but operate at a steady pace.

Perhaps the interaction with Nodespace (if that's still desired) comes from touching upon it to avoid the complications of gravity that other "jump" drives seem to have. Also for Nodespace, I'm thinking a frozen lake may be a better analogy, the humans use holes they find naturally, the Zuul use their bizarre hybrid drive to plow their own and the Cthonics never actually enter the water, they just show up and skate on the surface. Downside is being there too long might break the ice and they aren't prepared for that.

Another aspect of the drive to pay attention to, not only does it serve for pouncing but they have a certain built in commitment to a conflict. Retreating is not really practical in most cases and reinforcements might be slow. When they show up to a fight they intend to finish it. Their own initial awkwardness at intercepts probably leads to a better safe than sorry approach to planetary defenses. They try to pick their battles and ensure their enemy has as little say in the setup as possible. Once things get going they roll with what their enemy throws as best they can but this isn't their strong point and they know it.

In short they may not "pounce" on an undefended colony of yours because it would leave them exposed... meanwhile they will be preparing the multi-purpose death fleet they intend to drop on your homeworld.

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Coyote27
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Re: Story + Gameplay - Engine 3

Post by Coyote27 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:35 am

I can see this leading to a pretty interesting strategic style. If Humans and Morrigi are like mobile cavalry, Hivers like a stone wall and Tarka like the pike, then Cthonics would fight like a sledgehammer. Devastating and unpredictable rapid attack, but it can be unwieldy and leave them vulnerable on defense. They'd probably have to rely on garrisons on every border world rather than local rapid-response fleets like the Humans and Morrigi can, since they're likely to have problems with getting to threatened worlds in time. The best defense might be the threat of counterattack. Once they get planetary capacitors, they'll be able to defend their worlds better, though, freeing up more ships for offensive purposes.
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