best anti-zombie weapons

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phoenixdracul
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best anti-zombie weapons

Post by phoenixdracul » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:46 am

Pretty sure this is the right section for this post, if not feel free to go ahead and move it. <.< >.>

So my question to the FZ players, is in case of an actual zombie outbreak, what is the best weapon loadout you actually have in your possession that you would go out on missions or patrolling with?

Here's mine:
original M1 Carbine - Light weight, very accurate, good stopping power
original Colt M1911 - Great stopping power, accurate and time tested
Masahiro hand forged katana - what more needs to be said?
M1 Carbine bayonet - a good solid knife, can be used hand held in close quarters, or mounted for thrusting at decent range

A lot more available, but that would be the most versatile load out not counting anything for specialized tasks.

Michael~

Olon
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Re: best anti-zombie weapons

Post by Olon » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:17 am

prybar
shotgun
a good strong handheld power drill+screw adapter
screws
heavy duty metal brackets (for screwing into walls)
shotgun shells
a few molotov cocktails
lighter

Pretty much this, don't have to aim well with a shotgun, prybar lets me bash stuff but get into/break things as well, the powertools/screws/brackets for making quick yet sturdy barricades, and the molotovs are for fun.

Hey, eventually enough of them will burn off that they wont have enough body left to move anymore, and a strategic fire here or there could really keep you safe from them for a while....plus fire+zombies=fun

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Re: best anti-zombie weapons

Post by phoenixdracul » Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:16 am

a crowbar is definatly good to carry in an apocalypse, can bash in a zombies skull, or a good hard thrust with the straight end and you can probably breach a skull too. as for fire, napalm is easy enough to make, and it sticks ^.^

Ares_in_snow
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Re: best anti-zombie weapons

Post by Ares_in_snow » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:11 pm

I'm a bit dubious of the stopping power of an .30 carbine round. Now a garand, m14, or even m16 not so much. To that effect, an ar-15 with high quality components and synthetic furnature would be even lighter and more accurate.

As for handguns, I rather strongly dislike the 1911. 7 rounds of .45? I'll go with a glock or XD with 13 rounds of .45, or even better, a high capacity 9mm with 15-20 rounds. Glocks and XDs are in the same category of reliability as the 1911, and have greater capacities and ruggedness. There's a reason the xd45c is my handgun of choice.

Swords, ESPECIALLY katanas, are highly over-rated as far as extended use goes. Thrusting swords are more reliable than cutting swords, as they're less likely to break upon hitting bone. In truth, you'd be lucky to behead more than a couple zeds before a katana would break on you, regardless of which mythical creator you choose. Knife style bayonets are out for similar reasons. Spike style bayonets, otoh, tend to survive a bit longer.

Everyone likes to talk up shotguns. . . there are reasons no military uses them as the primary firearm. For starters, a typical shotgun with an ideal choke and perfect construction will only be useful up to about 70 yards with buckshot. (Likewise, only 150 yards with slugs.) Compare that to virtually any modern battle or assault rifle that should be more than capable out to 300 yards at a minimum. Designated Marksman rifles are designed for use out to 700 yards. . .

Further the "Don't have to aim well" aspect of shotguns is totally false. A 3" magnum 00 buck will have 9 pellets of .33 caliber. Out of a typical barrel they'll spread to only a couple inches within the confines of any domicile. A 3" pattern roughly describes the arc of inaccuracy you'll get from most handguns in similar ranges. IE the same degree of accuracy is needed.

That said, my ideal arsenel:
A hidiously accurate hunting/sniper rifle. Useful for ending single zeds from great distance, or doing the same for marauding looters. Note: It is REALLY hard to triangulate a single shot. IRL I own a Remington 700 chambered in aught-six with a very high quality scope on it.
A high capacity battle/assault rifle. Anything that is reliable and can carry 25+ rounds is worth considering here. I consider reliability first and foremost, so I am a bit biased towards the AK line of things as opposed to the m-16. Still a high-quality ar-15 well taken care of will be nearly as reliable as an AK, and FAR more accurate. IRL I own a Saiga .308 with numerous 25 round magazines.
A reliable shotgun, ideally detatchable magazine fed. Between 15 and 50 yards, nothing is quite as devastating as a good 12 gauge. I'd recommend the Saiga 12 here. IRL I own a remington 870 with an extended tube.
A reliable handgun with a reasonable capacity. Must be sufficiently accurate to headshot at 15 yards, and must have sufficient capacity to enable you to fight your way to your real weapons. Also must be light/convenient enough that you don't feel the urge to leave it behind. I have no real brand/caliber loyalty (Aside from a dislike for sub-caliber guns. No 5.7 please) as the most important factor is the shooter's comfort with the gun. IRL I own an XD45c.

Firearms aside, my preferred melee weapon would be a crowbar. Not too likely to break when you need it, and useful for things other than killing zeds.

I'm against any use of incindiary weapons as fire spreads too easily.

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Re: best anti-zombie weapons

Post by Erinys » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:53 pm

Ares_in_snow wrote:Swords, ESPECIALLY katanas, are highly over-rated as far as extended use goes. Thrusting swords are more reliable than cutting swords, as they're less likely to break upon hitting bone. In truth, you'd be lucky to behead more than a couple zeds before a katana would break on you, regardless of which mythical creator you choose.


I'm afraid that I have to disagree with you on this score. There's nothing "mythical" about a good sword or a competent swordsmith, and human history has thousands of years of warfare and empire to prove it. No weapon would remain in service for as long as the sword has if it would break before a warrior could take down more than a couple of foes.

I would agree that a practical European style sword might be preferable to a katana in terms of durability, but that is at least in part because very few of us on this side of the Pacific know how to make, use and care for a katana properly. All in all, however, I would just say that I respect the sword as a weapon. Especially as a weapon that doesn't automatically become about as useful as a lace doily if it runs out of ammunition. :twisted:

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Re: best anti-zombie weapons

Post by U.E.D.C. » Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:27 pm

I personally would refine the skills of the bow, and learn how to fletch my own arrows. Silent, long range, accurate, slightly easier ressupply than a gun. Yeah there's down sides but I think it would be useful, especially later on when bullets are few and far between. I would also carry a spear and a carbine of some sort.
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phoenixdracul
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Re: best anti-zombie weapons

Post by phoenixdracul » Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:44 am

What i meant when starting this was weapons you would use based on what you actually have in your home, not necessarily what would be "ideal" but I suppose that's a moot point now.

But anyway, definitely agree with with Arinn, there is nothing mystical about a high quality sword. Your usual off the shelf display sword is typically made out lower grade stainless steel and too much combat, or impacts with solid objects would probably result in breaking as seen in the 1 QVC video where a guy hits one off a table and the blade snaps.

However a good forged sword, katana, longsword, etc is made of much higher quality steel and is very durable, and in feudal Japan, swords were actually tested by cutting through people so the whole "not being able to cut through bone without breaking" is well... nonsense. Today though, they are tested on these bamboo wraps that simulate the density of flesh and bone and a good forged katana can usually cut through several.

For UEDC, a bow/arrows and spear would definitely be a great weapon, especially if used from a high elevation defensible point like a rooftop of wall. Arrows are certainly easier to get a hold of/produce in such an apocalypse, however if you can hold onto your brass after you fire a round you can reload them. Though arrows would be a bit advantageous since they are a lot quieter when delivering a kill shot.

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Re: best anti-zombie weapons

Post by Ares_in_snow » Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:43 am

Take a materials engineering course sometime. Was one of my favorite series of courses for my degree. You'd be surprised what you learn.

I really would NOT use a sword in a zombie apocalypse.

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Re: best anti-zombie weapons

Post by Erinys » Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:49 am

Ares_in_snow wrote:Take a materials engineering course sometime.


Take an archaeology course sometime. Or a history course, for that matter.

Also, please feel free to forward the names, email addresses and current faculty positions of any professor who actually gave you a degree in materials engineering when you cannot understand a process as simple and elegant as the forging of a sword. Or why a sword doesn't break after two or three blows.

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phoenixdracul
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Re: best anti-zombie weapons

Post by phoenixdracul » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:38 am

Erinys wrote:
Ares_in_snow wrote:Take a materials engineering course sometime.


Take an archaeology course sometime. Or a history course, for that matter.

Also, please feel free to forward the names, email addresses and current faculty positions of any professor who actually gave you a degree in materials engineering when you cannot understand a process as simple and elegant as the forging of a sword. Or why a sword doesn't break after two or three blows.

--Arinn


I like you! ^.^ Though I would hardly call forging a sword a simple process, but it is certainly elegant, watching a Japanese sword smith work is really something. Also, wouldn't even need to take a class, could just watch the episode of mythbusters where they were testing the myth of cutting 1 sword with another and you'll get an idea of just how durable a good sword or even a decent one can be.

~Michael

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Erinys
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Re: best anti-zombie weapons

Post by Erinys » Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:46 pm

phoenixdracul wrote:I like you! ^.^ Though I would hardly call forging a sword a simple process, but it is certainly elegant, watching a Japanese sword smith work is really something.


Well, it might well be called "simple" by the standards of 21st century materials engineering. I worked at Boeing briefly when I was younger, assigned to two engineering groups--one doing destructive testing and another working with composite materials for the B-2 and F-22. That stuff seems pretty complicated to me. ;)

I am sorry that I am forced to disagree so strongly with Ares on this subject, because I have great respect for his posts, and his knowledge of guns and marksmanship seem to be very advanced. But on this one particular issue, he is wrong. A sword may be inferior to a loaded gun with endless ammunition, but it is certainly superior to a crowbar in a number of ways.

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Re: best anti-zombie weapons

Post by Olon » Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:57 am

Erinys wrote:
phoenixdracul wrote:I like you! ^.^ Though I would hardly call forging a sword a simple process, but it is certainly elegant, watching a Japanese sword smith work is really something.


Well, it might well be called "simple" by the standards of 21st century materials engineering. I worked at Boeing briefly when I was younger, assigned to two engineering groups--one doing destructive testing and another working with composite materials for the B-2 and F-22. That stuff seems pretty complicated to me. ;)

I am sorry that I am forced to disagree so strongly with Ares on this subject, because I have great respect for his posts, and his knowledge of guns and marksmanship seem to be very advanced. But on this one particular issue, he is wrong. A sword may be inferior to a loaded gun with endless ammunition, but it is certainly superior to a crowbar in a number of ways.

--Arinn


As long as you admit the crowbar has it's own merits(albeit for different reasons) as well, i know i can personally agree that a sword would be understated in it's usefulness.

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Re: best anti-zombie weapons

Post by Ares_in_snow » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:40 am

University of Alaska, Fairbanks, graduated 2005. You can easily look up the various faculty.

Vitriol aside, you're forgetting one very important thing about swords: They were a noble's weapon for a reason. Any idiot can pick one up and hack and slash, but it takes skill to keep from doing stupid shit that will break the blade. Hitting bone won't break the blade every time, and won't break the blade all that often, but it works out that the "slender, elegant" swords preferred by most "fanboys/girls" really aren't anywhere near the quality of weapon people like to impart on them. Swords were one of very few weapons that were flexible enough to be useful against any target. However they required constant maintainance, were expensive, and required much training to use. I honestly would not trust ANYONE in my fort to keep a katana, rapier, or lighter blade saber from shattering at an important moment.

The reason katanas are so well respected (Aside from the generic japanese mystique) is that the base Katana is one of the earliest composite materials. The blade is sharper and harder than backside of the sword. (The different density/hardness of the metal is what actually pulls the blade into its distinctive curve.) Further, at various times and by various smiths, different constructions have been attempted, some being better than others. There's actually a good diagram up on Wikipedia about 'em, though I recommend taking anything in the Wikipedia's Katana entry with a huge grain of salt. The Katana articles are notorious for getting dumped on. Image The major reason modern "replica" swords are so crap is that they get the orientation of the grains of metal wrong, and they tend to all be one single temper.

This technology was not unique to japan, quite a few places developed similar techniques, just none have quite as much publicity as Japan. Quality of the ores used has as much to do with quality of ancient swords as the actual crafting, however. That said, a wave of 30 zombies vs an intermediate swordsman would likely leave a dozen zeds dead, the sword broken, and the swordsman as zombie chow. You just never know when one of the flaws in the blade will make itself known.

I know you're the :twisted: Erinn, but you really might try working on your Interaction. I wouldn't join your fort. :P

MTBF (mean time between fails) for a modern quality handgun is somewhere between 3k and 7k rounds. (Usually a spring or the firing pin goes. Both tend to be easy fixes) Sadly there are no good numbers for most bladed weapons. Guns have been around too long, and the whole fantasy genre is interested in adding to their mystique.

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Re: best anti-zombie weapons

Post by Erinys » Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:53 pm

Ares_in_snow wrote:Vitriol aside, you're forgetting one very important thing about swords: They were a noble's weapon for a reason. Any idiot can pick one up and hack and slash, but it takes skill to keep from doing stupid shit that will break the blade.


"Stupid shit" can be done with any weapon, thus breaking or incapacitating that weapon and causing the death of the wielder. I would think that as a gun enthusiast, you of all people would know this.

As for "Interaction" crack? This is my Fort, Ares. And you might want to try scrolling back. I respectfully disagreed with you because you strongly overstated a dubious point; you came back with a command that I "take a course some time", which is rude, dismissive and smug.

I'm sorry that you don't seem to like it when other people speak to you EXACTLY the way you speak to them. If you don't like being talked down to, however, try not talking down to people. And keep in mind that you are not the only person present with a degree.

You have yet to say a single thing I haven't heard before about swords and their composition: what you have yet to acknowledge is that any device which led to the death of the wielder on every single battlefield with more than 30 people on it could not have remained the most coveted and respected personal weapon of many cultures for thousands of years. Every once in a while, you need to hold up your theories versus reality, and realize that because they mismatch so badly, you must have something very, very wrong.

--Arinn
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phoenixdracul
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Re: best anti-zombie weapons

Post by phoenixdracul » Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:19 pm

I may not have a degree yet, but I have been training in the martial arts and combat styles for over a decade now with a focus on sword, with particular focus on the Katana so I know just how reliable it can be. And a good(emphasis on the good) sword will serve a person well against zombies or any other adversaries and is unlikely to break after "a dozen zombies".

But yes, acting like an idiot and mishandling a sword, or any weapon will lead to damage or injury, or of course death. You can shoot yourself in the foot just as easily as you can lop it off. And yes, if you swing a sword really hard and hit things like walls or metal poles then yes that will damage and may break the sword. But if used correctly a good sword can last hundreds of years through hundreds of kills as seen by a number museum exhibits of 1000+ year old swords that have seen a lot combat.

That being said sure when your facing off against a horde of zombies the katana or any sword may not be the first choice, but it comes in damn handy when you A) run out of ammo, B) need to conserve ammo, or C) need to kill quietly.

All that being said, I'm sorry this topic has become such a heated debate over this.

Michael~

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