Regarding Extended Range Vessels

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JPThunda
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Regarding Extended Range Vessels

Post by JPThunda » Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:00 pm

My suggestion is this: Give Extended Range vessels a limited CP allotment so that you can make a fleet with just those ships. The reason why, quite frankly, is that in my current game my Extended Range cruiser(the Explorer-class) currently has some 13 turns of endurance and a significant range....even more-so than my standard supply vessels, and drastically more-so than my command ships. Basically the command ships and their associated supply ships are limiting the range of my explorers, and that's silly. I don't think it would be out of the question to let an Extended Range ship command a fleet, say at 18CE, so you can have a trio of them doing their own exploring thing.

It just seems kind-of counter intuitive to have the brass say "Alright, we've designed a specialty ship with extended fuel and supply capabilities to explore regions where our previous vessels could only dream of going! Now, assign it to one of those slow, supply-hogging command ships and get it into the field!"

Anyone see where I'm coming from, or am I just way off base here?

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Nall White
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Re: Regarding Extended Range Vessels

Post by Nall White » Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:57 pm

I've thought the same myself. I would welcome variant CnCs.
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Korgan
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Re: Regarding Extended Range Vessels

Post by Korgan » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:47 am

No, they add to the fleet supply, all ships do, overall endurance for a fleet is the average endurance of all the ships combined. The OP's issue is that because all his other ships are so much lower in endurance they're shortening the range of the ER's and thus making them less useful. Although, if what he says is true and they have more endurance then even his supply ship.. well then I wouldn't complain much, they're not much weaker then an armor cruiser and it would mean he wouldn't really need a supply ship in his fleets. However, one crappy endurance rated CnC isn't going to lower the overall endurance much if all the other ships are ER's. Not that i'm against his idea of a specialized ER CnC.

JPThunda
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Re: Regarding Extended Range Vessels

Post by JPThunda » Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:13 am

Korgan is right on the money. The supply ships I have only get 11T of endurance, the ER ships get 13T of endurance with a higher endurance cap than supply ships due to design, modules, and weapons, and command ships get 2T. I wanted to phase out my old survey fleets and use them for backwater defense/patrol fleets and use the new ER ships for scouting and survey missions, but the command ship drags down their endurance and limits their supply significantly. Even if I did a redesign for a specialized command ship, I don't think I'd get much more range out of it, maybe 5T of endurance, tops. Right now, the command ship cuts 3T of endurance from the fleet, and on my current map(SotSverse) that's the difference between being in range and not being in range.

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Heart of Storm
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Re: Regarding Extended Range Vessels

Post by Heart of Storm » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:44 pm

Ok, so based on an ER having an Endurance of 13T, and a Command having 2T, and running of Korgans post, the fleets endurance is the average of all ships, and not the endurance of the lowest, then a scout fleet of 1 CnC + 3 ERs would be (13+13+13+2)/4 = 10.25, vs a similar fleet (CnC + 3 supplys with 11 Endurance) = 8.75.

So ER's have a significant improvement (1.5T Endurance), even with a Command ship 'dragging them down'

Adding anymore ER's gives rapidly diminishing returns (8ERs + 1CnC gives an endurance of 11.77 so probably not worth the extra 5 ships...)

JPThunda
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Re: Regarding Extended Range Vessels

Post by JPThunda » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:04 pm

Right, and that is significant, but the problem is I built these ships for a specific purpose, going out to explore starts that are further than 8 turns of movement away, and there are a lot of said stars. Because I cannot go my full 13 turns due to the command ship, I can't get to some stars, one of which I just found out from an intel mission has a size 9 with 9ch that the Liir has just colonized and is dragging away towards 536 ch. I would love to strike said planet with a fleet of ER ships, but it's too far away and I can't move it any closer (a string of 4 systems with no orbitals, just stars).

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DaNuker
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Re: Regarding Extended Range Vessels

Post by DaNuker » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:14 am

Yeah, ER vessels lost some of its luster due to the fact that you need to bring a short ranged supply Command vessel with them and up a branch of the tech tree where there it is not guaranteed.

I'm guessing they are more like Armored Supply vessels instead of ER Scouts that we used to use them for in Sots1. :?

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moonsilver
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Re: Regarding Extended Range Vessels

Post by moonsilver » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:03 pm

What if u moved the extended range module to the front of the ship, so that u still had a middle module for the cnc section? would that be too problamatic or cause further problems or would it be ok?

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Mecron
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Re: Regarding Extended Range Vessels

Post by Mecron » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:20 pm

ER's will be available from game start after this update.

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Dri
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Re: Regarding Extended Range Vessels

Post by Dri » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:30 pm

Mecron wrote:ER's will be available from game start after this update.


While more options is usually good, don't you think that perhaps things are getting a tad bit overloaded early game? I mean when I press the button for cruiser mission section theres QUITE A LOT of things that pop-up on Turn 1. :shock:

Do you think this might change? Perhaps some sections will be combined into others or given a new tech thats needed to unlock them? Or are future expansions gonna fill out the mid and late games to match the early game? :twisted:

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RobAK801
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Re: Regarding Extended Range Vessels

Post by RobAK801 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:42 pm

Dri the ER section was a starter in Prime and is most useful for early exploration, I for one am glad to have it turn 1. Also just because there are designs availible turn 1 doesn't mean you need to use them. Also there are about 10-11 designs depending on race currently at start,that includes Constructors that you never need to touch, 1 more isn't all that much.
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Mecron
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Re: Regarding Extended Range Vessels

Post by Mecron » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:01 pm

Dri is correct in the sense of one is always keeping an eye on intitial design choices not overwhelming folks...on the other hand the section tech fit in one spot...to move it lower but still not initial was just going to be gratuitous, and the it was an initial tech in prime has weight when combined with folks having trouble with it being so high in the tree now. Sooooo...feedback listened to, problem solved, handwringing over solution brushed aside. ;)

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kefka888
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Re: Regarding Extended Range Vessels

Post by kefka888 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:39 am

Do extended range vessels yield better endurance values over an armor as you research better supply technologies? At turn one as they have an endurance very close to an identically equipped armor cruiser.

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Dri
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Re: Regarding Extended Range Vessels

Post by Dri » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:58 am

I think something is up in a bad way with the ER sections.

As you said they have about the same endurance as armor cruisers but ALSO the same exact armor and structure rating too despite the section description saying they trade durability for supply range. :googly:

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Mecron
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Re: Regarding Extended Range Vessels

Post by Mecron » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:52 pm

try them out vs missles sometime dri...sometimes you gotta think outside the box

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