Minimum feasibility

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Karu
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Re: Minimum feasibility

Post by Karu » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:45 pm

He is wrong in his "studys".

There are techs failing with 99% feasability and techs succeding with 5% feasability.
Your "2nd roll" was done by the game at the start too - 1 roll per techlink to be exact.

Your early breakthrough:

You habe a % Chance to finish the tech starting at 50% research.
Factors are a) % of income money to tech (50% income seems to be a modifier of 1 = means 0 effect, less then 50% into research gives more chances to early breakthrough and vica versa) b) your goverment type - some have mali, some have boni.

A tech you rolled will allways be researched at 150% research time.
A tech you failed to roll will allways fail at 200% research time.


Sincerly

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Mecron
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Re: Minimum feasibility

Post by Mecron » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:51 pm

Arandor has it right...

Zwei it will be a LOT simpler if you stop mixing words and concepts together that are separate.

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BlueTemplar
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Re: Minimum feasibility

Post by BlueTemplar » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:05 pm

Karu wrote:a) % of income money to tech (50% income seems to be a modifier of 1 = means 0 effect, less then 50% into research gives more chances to early breakthrough and vica versa)

Hmm, what makes you think this is a factor?

ForceUser
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Re: Minimum feasibility

Post by ForceUser » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:43 pm

BlueTemplar wrote:
Karu wrote:a) % of income money to tech (50% income seems to be a modifier of 1 = means 0 effect, less then 50% into research gives more chances to early breakthrough and vica versa)

Hmm, what makes you think this is a factor?

My guess would be file diving or potentially just observation.

And yes, you are correct Karu, a salvage prject gives you a yellow link, like every other guarenteed tech (100% basically) :)
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Karu
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Re: Minimum feasibility

Post by Karu » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:05 pm

ForceUser wrote:
BlueTemplar wrote:
Karu wrote:a) % of income money to tech (50% income seems to be a modifier of 1 = means 0 effect, less then 50% into research gives more chances to early breakthrough and vica versa)

Hmm, what makes you think this is a factor?

My guess would be file diving or potentially just observation.


It was once stated by Mecron that the more money over 50% (slider tax to research) the longer the research will take - aka more often overturn.
The 2nd datapoint is the Loa-playstyle - tax 10 till 50-70% tech, then Tax 2-3 for a growth spurt (and hoping for the breakthrough).
The 3rd one is the influence of the goverment type on the breakthroughs.
The 4th one is the "a tech you 'got' will be researched at 150%" and "first breakthrough chance is on or short behind 50%" .

Put together that is the picture you can draw, and is supported by my observation in my games.


Sincerly

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BlueTemplar
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Re: Minimum feasibility

Post by BlueTemplar » Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:32 pm

It was once stated by Mecron that the more money over 50% (slider tax to research) the longer the research will take - aka more often overturn.

Could you please give a link to that statement?

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Karu
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Re: Minimum feasibility

Post by Karu » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:40 pm

BlueTemplar wrote:
It was once stated by Mecron that the more money over 50% (slider tax to research) the longer the research will take - aka more often overturn.

Could you please give a link to that statement?


Sorry, I made a quicksearch for it - but mecron is to active in the forum ( a dev too active - go figure *looking at other game studios*).
Still I'm quite sure he did :/

Sincerly

burn
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Re: Minimum feasibility

Post by burn » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:23 pm

It's just a "COOL RANDOM" aspect of the game. Do not question it. Just fix it yourself in the files. Wish the AI was more easily accessible as well, it's never going to be able to process the possibilities of this game it seems, not in our lifetime.

Azrael Ultima
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Re: Minimum feasibility

Post by Azrael Ultima » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:07 pm

Karu wrote:It was once stated by Mecron that the more money over 50% (slider tax to research) the longer the research will take - aka more often overturn.

That's no special programming, just the math of the matter. Only putting miniscule amounts of money into research will lead to you spending lots of turns between 50% and 100%, and there is a roll for breakthrough in every one of them, while with large amounts, you might go from 50% to 100% in a single turn, netting only a single roll.

The compounded chance for breakthrough will naturally be higher in the first case.


Regarding the OP, feasibility doesn't technically do anything. It just tells you a rough estimate of what your chance to get the tech is, it doesn't set the chance.
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burn
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Re: Minimum feasibility

Post by burn » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:03 pm

To OP, go in defaultstratmodifiers, change <TechFeasibilityDeviation> from 0.5 to 0.1 if the lies from feasibility bothers you so much. As for a suggestion to counter the harsh consequences of having "bad luck" by failing all necessary techs, I suggest you edit the chances of getting techs in the techtree. The simplest hotfix to this right now would be to just make it so you have more than one roll per link. Infinite rolls, with xturns in between failures? whatever. Anything other than having to gamble with salvage ships instead, since they may not always be used to your end.

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Profound_Darkness
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Re: Minimum feasibility

Post by Profound_Darkness » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:34 am

Karu wrote:
BlueTemplar wrote:
It was once stated by Mecron that the more money over 50% (slider tax to research) the longer the research will take - aka more often overturn.

Could you please give a link to that statement?


Sorry, I made a quicksearch for it - but mecron is to active in the forum ( a dev too active - go figure *looking at other game studios*).
Still I'm quite sure he did :/

Sincerly


(typing 1 handed from a bed and a bit dazed)
I seem to remember reading something like that though i look(ed) at the idea statistically, not mechanically.
ie more research = faster normal completion, less research = more turns not done thus more chances (note plural) @ breakthrough.

(breakthroughs can happen >= 50%, including >100%. true cost decided at start (seemingly 100% inclusive to 200% exclusive), game shows you best case cost.)

its funny with the complexities/randomness of this game the superstitions that have sprung up :) .
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Jaeger
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Re: Minimum feasibility

Post by Jaeger » Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:23 am

Well i played zuul and I know that they have minium feasibility in many things BUT I have a problem with salvage and special projects. While playing zuul main way to get technologies is salvage projects, I`ve played more than 200 turns and countless battles but NO salvage projects!? Am I doing something wrong or what? Any ideas? :googly:

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Karu
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Re: Minimum feasibility

Post by Karu » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:53 am

Make sure your CnC and and as many ships as possible survive (midsection intact is key!).

Secondly you can only salvage what the enemy is fielding AND if you have all prequisits for.
(Not having XRay laser dont let you Laser PD).
An effective way in MP is to "skip to field a tech" against Zuul to starve them.

You can of cause kill planets. They generate salvage too. Thats your best bet to get passive techs like mecha empathy f.e..

Sometimes also the message that you got salvage slips through - just check your salvage research UI regulary.

Sincerely

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