*Insert interesting title here*... darn. (Suggestion post)

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Rossinna-Sama
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*Insert interesting title here*... darn. (Suggestion post)

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:52 am

Just been wanting to get this load off my chest. This is mostly for "SOTS3", but can be applied to SOTS2 in most ways.

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Okay. First...
Multiplayer-
Full Steamworks Dedicated Server integration: Why? Because P2P is really annoying. Also lets larger and longer games happen if a server "remembers" and hosts your MP match as people drop in and out at their own leisure without someone having to constantly be there to keep the game running.

Ranked & Unranked MP modes: SOTS at its MP core can be quite competitive. With proper fixed settings (detailed below) a ranked mode in which your wins, losses and so on can be quite a lot of fun. Rewards for it could simply be more decals or whatnot. Unranked is just that... unranked and allows any settings, maps and even mods to be run.

Co-op Empire Control: Some older games such as Conquest: Frontier wars allowed players to share the same slot and control different aspects of their faction. Or you could simply let players pick what they want to have access too, and the co-op partner gets what's left over as well as whatever he\she wants as well. Makes it easier to manage a larger, longer game with less factions.

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Single Player
Ingame Guided Tutorial: An option for newer players to be shown how to start off on the right foot. Age of Empires 2 does a good example of this. Lets you do as you wish, but provides tips, highlights and guides visually as to what your next move should be. This game has a learning curve which can be fairly severe, and anything that can be done to ease this should be looked into.

Ship Designer: Lets you design ships for all factions with all techs unlocked which can then be built directly from ingame.
Factional Editor: The next step up - ingame modding. Allows you to alter certain things with ship sections and Randoms\GMs, letting you give for example a Liir Battleship more supply, a Locust Worldship Pulsed Graviton Beams or lowering the mount sizes on Liir battleships. These "mods" can be imported into Multiplayer as well as long as all players accept it to allow custom balance without the hassle of manually editing files. Won't function on "Ranked" servers though.
Galaxy Editor: Just a map making\editing which lets players make the maps they want to play on. As usual, available in all modes barring Ranked MP.

Pre-set Game Modes: Lets players choose a starting situation for their empire.
Examples of this would be a situation in which you start with LV tech and the enemy only has CRs, but has many, many more planets than you. Or a "quick game" option which starts off your empire with mid-game level techs and the forces and planets to sustain it.

Checkbox Modes: These are smaller "mods" which alter the way the game plays. Examples would be a checkbox to remove the permanent armor layers on all ships (and disabling phase dislocation), Removing armor period, halving the turn speed of all ships, removing research probabilities or studies, doubling the Psi power globally and so on. It'd also let you select ingame which Randoms and GMs you want to appear, so you don't have to resort to editing game files to keep pesky Supernovae away.

Story Mode: No, not a campaign. This is a "generate your own story" mode in which the game dramatizes your actions, throws curveballs at you with more severe random events and removing the limits on GMs and allows things like AI rebellion and so on without needing their preqs researched. Vastly more difficult than the other modes but would let players easily have games that last up to 10,000 turns in larger maps due to the havok that's constantly happening.

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Techs
More factional specific weapons and techs: Universe of choices needs more choices. Heh. Techs like the aforementioned Phase Dislocation help flavor each faction from one another when its specific only to them.

Tree Evaluation: The "interesting" techs are typically way too spread out and hard to reach. Techs which help define a faction such as Liir's Protectorate should not be so hard to reach, as well as techs which simply are underutilized because they are a pain to get to. Zuul's Warmind is a good example, its a 100% tech but you're probably never going to get to it because of failing a tech beforehand.

Optional Multi-tech research: Want to research multiple techs at once but at a reduced time compared to if all of your scientific forces are dedicating to one at a time? Should be able to. Should be able to set say 25% of the research budget to Vacuum Preservation but the other 75% to Meson beams.

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Ships-
More diversity: There should be more sections which allow the use of some of the other weapon types in the game. Examples would be the startling lack of Projectors on LV-class ships as well as their lack on BC and BB class ships. Other examples would be more use of "spinal" mounts (These are currently only found typically on Spinal BRs) and overall rounding out the number of Command sections available to DNs.

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Combat-
More control options: I should be able to order my fleet to go one way, but face its target at all times (strafing). I should be able to set preferred combat stances so my Torpedo Cruisers fire off their torpedos, run away then come back when the torps are reloaded. Should also be allowed to easily choose elevation by holding shift and then raising\lowering my mouse. Homeworld series shows that very well.

Optimization of certain shaders: Cloaking more than two ships should not bring an I7 to its knees while the UI is on. Nor should Psi Inspiration and such.

AI Psi cheating: The AI isn't limited to using only one Psi ability at once like human players are. While I'll be the first to admit the AI really needs help (especially auto resolve AI), this can really give the AI a large edge if it simply Psi attacks down your entire fleet where you are literally forbidden from using more than one power at a time due to the UI.

Decrewing should be more common: Only the Liir really suffer from this, and even then its still far more common for the entire ship to blow up. It adds a lot to the immersion factor if say 20% of your fleet will wind up as lifeless husks instead of debris.

Permanent Wreckage: When a ship dies, it should stay there as a blocking effect until more damage is applied to blow it up again. When a LV dies, it should split into sections like it currently does but stay there as a memento of that battle.

Asteroid Optimization pass: I'm sure the asteroids need a look at from a performance standpoint. While they look good, compared to the other art assets (such as planets and the sun) they simply don't fit with how detailed they are when compared to the textures used on the other stellar bodies.

Ship Pullout Menu: There should be a little side menu which you can open which will give you detailed information on your currently selected ship such as its remaining Psi power, its speed, weapon loadout and so on as well as all effects that critical hits have caused to it.

Death Models: Some ships don't "blow up properly". Construction ships and Stations are excellent examples - construction ships just die in a small little explosion and vanish into space, while stations do die properly but for some reason change their factional color during it. Explosions from exploding ships just don't feel very satisfying in general.

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Strategic-
Salvage Mission: A fleet should be able to spend a turn (or more) combing through the permanent wreckage as mentioned above to see if there is any worthwhile salvage. Having Salvage ships vastly increases the chance, but isn't a requirement. Doesn't remove the wreckages from the system, they'll expire after a few turns on their own.

Colonize & Rebase: A Colony fleet should be able to colonize then rebase to that planet in the same turn.
Construct & Rebase: A Construction fleet should be able to construct a station and if the systems supply allows, rebase that fleet there in the same turn.

Automated Construction Fleets: Allows construction fleets to automatically upgrade stations on their own volition. Won't make new stations on their own and you still have to set the modules to be built on the stations yourself.

Scout Mission: Sends a single ship (can be any, Admiral is not required) to a system to "See what's up" then return. Doesn't survey the system, mostly used for Propaganda and scouting ships.

Spying: Should be able to send agents to do specific missions. AI should be able to do the same to you. I actually like how SOTS2 does its spy game right now but it could be a little more fleshed out, but its cheating if the AI can't do it...

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UI-
System Search: Should be able to press a button and have all systems of that name show up while all other systems grey out. See Star Control 3
Planet Search: Should be able to bring up the planet menu and type in the name of a planet\system you want to find.
Station Search: Same as above, but for stations.

Autodesign ships: The AI should be able to design your ships for you, following a set of guidelines you lay down for it.
Pre-designed ships: The Ship Designer as mentioned before should be integrated within the game to allow ships to be used from one match to another.

UI Scaling: self explanatory.
Modular UI: Allows players to place any UI element wherever they want. See Star Trek Online for a good example of this.

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Misc-
Factional Skins: Players should be able to unlock\purchase new skins for their fleets, such as my "Neon Liir" just in an official manner with proper quality control.
Full modding support: Self explanatory, not getting into that here.
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Creator of the upcoming Seimei universe.

ScoSteSal118
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Re: *Insert interesting title here*... darn. (Suggestion pos

Post by ScoSteSal118 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:03 pm

:o That is a big wish list. A lot of that stuff sounds really cool to me too, but I wonder how feasible implementing much of it would be without a really major change in Kerberos' fortunes.

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Mecron
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Re: *Insert interesting title here*... darn. (Suggestion pos

Post by Mecron » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:47 pm

Very cool but its about 150K worth of work for everything.

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Ryat
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Re: *Insert interesting title here*... darn. (Suggestion pos

Post by Ryat » Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:01 am

Mecron wrote:Very cool but its about 150K worth of work for everything.

Let me see if I have that lying around.
Sins of Solar Empire: Distant Stars http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/335474

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Ludovsky
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Re: *Insert interesting title here*... darn. (Suggestion pos

Post by Ludovsky » Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:19 am

I'd love to see a fair amount of this get made(though some things more than others and others.... less so).

But this said I don't even need to develop games to know that, especially with a complex beast of a game like SOTS to which espionage operations and scenarios are still yet to be added(and whose fundings currently -directly- depends on how well Kerberos' independantly developped games sells) to know that there is no ways the funds half of this would require could be amassed for SOTS2.

krip123
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Re: *Insert interesting title here*... darn. (Suggestion pos

Post by krip123 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:26 pm

Ranked & Unranked MP modes: SOTS at its MP core can be quite competitive. With proper fixed settings (detailed below) a ranked mode in which your wins, losses and so on can be quite a lot of fun. Rewards for it could simply be more decals or whatnot. Unranked is just that... unranked and allows any settings, maps and even mods to be run.


This could only work if the playerbase is quite big. Otherwise the queue times would be astronomical. Another problem is that a game can take days to complete. You can rarely decide a game in 2 hours even on the smaller maps. If you play on the bigger maps the game will stretch to weeks. This sounds nice on paper but it won't work for a game like SOTS.

Other examples would be more use of "spinal" mounts


Spinal mounts are a legacy thing from the first game. They made possible to put heavy turrets on destroyer class ships.Spinal mounts don't make sense on CR's or DN because they can innately field heavy turrets. I guess it could be made so CR could equip super heavy mounts with a spinal.

When a ship dies, it should stay there as a blocking effect until more damage is applied to blow it up again. When a LV dies, it should split into sections like it currently does but stay there as a memento of that battle.


That would only add to the strain the game puts on your computer. I guess they could add it as an option (similarly how some games have a persistent bodies option).

Explosions from exploding ships just don't feel very satisfying in general.


To be honest there shouldn't be explosions like we have now in space. When something explodes in space you just see a flash of light and that's it. Because there is no air there is no fireball and the debris is expulsed so fast that it's almost invisible.

Colonize & Rebase: A Colony fleet should be able to colonize then rebase to that planet in the same turn.


That doesn't really make sense. Rebasing the colony fleet to the same system you are colonizing is gaming the system. After all the colony ships need to get supply and colonist from an already existing world.

Space Rabies
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Re: *Insert interesting title here*... darn. (Suggestion pos

Post by Space Rabies » Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:56 am

krip123 wrote:That doesn't really make sense. Rebasing the colony fleet to the same system you are colonizing is gaming the system. After all the colony ships need to get supply and colonist from an already existing world.

It's already possible to rebase colony fleets to colonies in progress or uncolonized systems as long as there is available fleet support (such as from a naval station), the suggestion is to just make it similar to the "Patrol and rebase" option.

codedragon76
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Re: *Insert interesting title here*... darn. (Suggestion pos

Post by codedragon76 » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:17 am

Mecron wrote:Very cool but its about 150K worth of work for everything.


Isn't that the kind of thing that can be crowd funded? I see a list of goals and a pricetag. I don't even think it would run a foul of Paradox problems since it is not an expansion or sellable in any way.

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Pavane
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Re: *Insert interesting title here*... darn. (Suggestion pos

Post by Pavane » Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:35 pm

Rossinna-Sama wrote:Optional Multi-tech research: Want to research multiple techs at once but at a reduced time compared to if all of your scientific forces are dedicating to one at a time? Should be able to. Should be able to set say 25% of the research budget to Vacuum Preservation but the other 75% to Meson beams.


I would take that one step further by allowing the player to choose one technology from each of the 16 research disciplines as the priority research project, and then allocate a percentage of available research resources to each research discipline (0% - 100%). Of course the total allocation cannot exceed 100%. The allocations can be changed at any time. Previous research will be "remembered" as it is now, slowly decaying over time.
Last edited by Pavane on Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BlueTemplar
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Re: *Insert interesting title here*... darn. (Suggestion pos

Post by BlueTemplar » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:24 pm

I don't really think multi-tech research is needed as long as all the unneeded money (over 150% if succeeded, 200% if failed) is sent back to treasury. This is a feature for games where there's a specific research resource and lots of cheap tech levels. And with multi-tech research you could game the current system by researching a tech to 50-100%, then just leave it there until it makes a breaktrough and start a new tech meanwhile.

Considering Kerberos crowdfunding experience with The Pit and Ground Pounders, they'd be lucky to raise 30k$...

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Mecron
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Re: *Insert interesting title here*... darn. (Suggestion pos

Post by Mecron » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:47 am

well to be fair bt, rossina has probably contributed a sizeable percentage of that.

Redwood8
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Re: *Insert interesting title here*... darn. (Suggestion pos

Post by Redwood8 » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:31 pm

This all sounds really good, especially the multiplayer...right now its just too hard to use and desperately needs to be updated and made easier.

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Mecron
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Re: *Insert interesting title here*... darn. (Suggestion pos

Post by Mecron » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:54 pm

...should only cost about 15K and about 3 months.

Redwood8
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Re: *Insert interesting title here*... darn. (Suggestion pos

Post by Redwood8 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:50 pm

Mecron wrote:...should only cost about 15K and about 3 months.

But its worth it.

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Mecron
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Re: *Insert interesting title here*... darn. (Suggestion pos

Post by Mecron » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:53 pm

I agree...and as soon as that funding is supplied we can get right on it.

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