On Body Shaming...and shaming in general.

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Mecron
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Re: On Body Shaming...and shaming in general.

Post by Mecron » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:49 pm

This morning, while I was questioning why I react to the phrase "Men's Movement" in the same way I react to the phrase "Neo-Nazi" or anything organization with the words "American", "Family" or "Freedom" in the title it occurred to me that part of the reason why I laugh when its referred to as a "Movement" is because it doesn't stand for anything. All the men I have seen beating their chests, (and here I am talking about the most clever and lucid ones, not the usual GG posting frat boys) have nothing really to say about men. All they can go on about is what they don't like about modern women and feminism. Which is fine for them but its not really going to stand the test of time.

So the question is, while clearly the MM needs a messiah, what form will that person take? What issues will he raise that are actually about men, as opposed to what some men feel threatened by? And is it even possible for there to be a valid movement while the horde of whining, toxic frat boys cruise the internet, ever watchful for anything that will "ruin their childhoods"?

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Re: On Body Shaming...and shaming in general.

Post by ZedF » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:43 am

I would agree that nudity taboos are probably doing more harm than good, especially as regards to body shaming.

However, Mecron's post above is actually touching upon the topic of how one performs a gender role within a society, which is a much broader and messier topic. It wasn't clear to me at first whether your reply was meant to be in response to him or an attempt to get back on topic. It seems to me that body shaming is only one facet of the larger topic of gender performance.

Feminism is ultimately a dialogue about how and why female gender roles, and the performance thereof, change and evolve in society. It's been an increasingly public dialogue for a long time, and a necessary one. But the evolution of male gender roles and the performance thereof gets much less attention, as well as much less public attention, and what discussion there has been seems like it has been largely reactionary in response to changing female gender role performance. This is a problem, because in the absence of a strong public discussion on the evolution of male gender performance, it is most natural to fall back on the status quo ante, which only brings more gender friction given feminism's advances, and more harm to young boys damaged by bullying, acclimatization to expectations of emotional repression, and confusion or even guilt about what it means to be male.

There needs to be a men's movement analogous to feminism, and those are the subjects its needs to tackle. But the subject is so broad, and reaction to the gradual erosion of male privilege so distracting, that it has had trouble finding a true public voice.
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Mecron
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Re: On Body Shaming...and shaming in general.

Post by Mecron » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:06 am

Exactly zed, and my point about what form should a spokesman take was an intro to discussing what real issues should be on the table, etc etc.


(also dan I know you think you are awesome clever and subtle but you are not. If you want to contribute please use your vast intellect towards making concise on topic points.)

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Re: On Body Shaming...and shaming in general.

Post by Erinys » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:20 pm

"Gynocentric world"? Lol...someone's been playing Hivers too long.

Returning to topic? I would love to see progress made toward a positive men's movement (as opposed to radicalizing men to defend white supremacy or male supremacy, which is far more common nowadays).

Legitimate issues to be addressed by advocates for male rights, and a reduction of harm to men in our society:

1. Dramatic increases of awareness in the rates of child abuse toward male children, sexual physical and emotional. Dramatic increase in awareness of maternal child abuse in particular, and far greater public resources spent on establishing a more functional mode of parenting and education.

2. Dramatic increase of focus on ending the school-to-prison pipeline which provides both Asian and North American industry with slave labor. The majority of victims of this system are male aged 12-60, and their numbers are far higher than the victims of human sex trafficking, which receives far more attention.

3. A sober and dynamic revision of our views and attitudes toward sexual assault when men and boys are the victims rather than the perpetrators. A complete end to the habit of dismissing sexual assault of underage boys as a joke or a "lucky break" when the perpetrator is female. A complete end to the notion that rape is an acceptable or deserved part of a prison sentence, if the victim is male.

More resources devoted to trauma counseling and support of male victims of sexual assault.

4. A long-needed revision of hostile attitudes toward male emotional and mental health needs. A long-needed revision of hostile attitudes toward male needs for touch, connection, and intimacy. A long-needed revision of unrealistic expectations of male children and adults in times of stress, grief, etc..

5. Universal decriminalization of sex work, which targets and stigmatizes men both as clients and providers. A revision of hostile and outdated ideas toward sex and sexuality, particularly male sexuality.

This is just stuff right off the top of my head. I'm sure there are other issues that impact men and boys primarily, including health nutrition and life expectancy, professions which are difficult to enter as a male, and issues related to safety standards in male dominated fields like soldiering and resource extraction.

But yeah. Every minute that men waste trying to restore the ancient patriarchal status quo, is another minute that they get to spend in a world where little boys are being constantly beaten, bullied and raped, or forced to fight in wars, and where men are disproportionately the victims of both slavery and every form of violent death--especially suicide.

No offense, but it seems to me that there are better ways to spend one's energy than trying to force women back into the box.
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Re: On Body Shaming...and shaming in general.

Post by Mecron » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:24 pm

Very concisely put!

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