Doug Ford wins elections in Ontario

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DemoMonkey
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Re: Doug Ford wins elections in Ontario

Post by DemoMonkey » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:02 pm

It's true. It's pointless to discuss politics with me. I should stick to safer topics.

So: Which religion is right about the one true god? And what should we do with the unbelievers?

Or if we want to double down on controversy: How Han Solo got his name; like it or LOVE it?

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Mecron
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Re: Doug Ford wins elections in Ontario

Post by Mecron » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:25 pm

now false equivalency inferring nothing matters! It's like a teaching course!

DemoMonkey
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Re: Doug Ford wins elections in Ontario

Post by DemoMonkey » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:03 pm

*raises hand*

Oooh! Oooh! I know this one!

Next we start throwing around the names of fallacies, with bonus points for Latin!

Then comes the sarcasm!

And then, the spanking!




...
No wait, sorry. That last one is only if the grail shaped beacon is involved.

ZedF
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Re: Doug Ford wins elections in Ontario

Post by ZedF » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:36 pm

DemoMonkey wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:49 pm
I don't expect to have more money in my pocket than I do now. I expect to have more money in my pocket going forward than I would have under continuing Liberal or NDP governments.
I am not aware of any reasonable basis upon which you could justify such an expectation. If you dismiss Ford’s promises as not credible (and they aren’t), then what are you left with? General feel-good “conservatives are better at managing money” beliefs?

The last 50 years have demonstrated that Liberals and Conservatives are about equally competent/incompetent at managing money and promoting business, overall. It’s just a question of where they prefer to spend and where they prefer to save. So if the Conservatives come out with a platform that is not credible, then who knows what they will wind up actually doing when in power and confronted with reality. How does that suggest you will wind up with more money than under the Liberals or NDP? You have no way to know.

About the only thing we do know about the Conservatives is that they aren’t in power yet and are already plagued by scandal and have a known scam artist for a leader. That does not sound like a recipe for success at anything other than ripping off the taxpayer.
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DemoMonkey
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Re: Doug Ford wins elections in Ontario

Post by DemoMonkey » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:12 pm

"I am not aware of any reasonable basis upon which you could justify such an expectation."

That's a fair question.

The last time we had a Conservative government (1995 to 2002) the Ontario provincial debt level rose an average of about 3.85 billion dollars a year. Adjusting that to 2018 dollars pegs it at about 5.74 billion a year.

Under the latest Liberal goverments (McGuinty/Wynne 2003 - 2018) the Ontario provincial debt load rose by about 17.13 billion dollars a year. More than 3 times as fast, even accounting for inflation.

Debt will crush this province long before any other issue gets close. All the progressive social program goodwill in the world is useless at best and destructive at worst if it can't be paid for.

I don't have a great deal of faith in any politician; but I do have a higher opinion of the fiscal management of conservatives party's in Canada than I do of the fiscal management of Liberal or NDP ones. Even factoring for the inevitable crony capitalism.

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Re: Doug Ford wins elections in Ontario

Post by Azrael Ultima » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:20 pm

DemoMonkey wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:59 pm
To some of us, that's about the bottom line. I expect more money in my pocket at the end of every year as a result of a Conservative government, which I can spend on my "self", so I'm all for it.
A Conservative government that prioritises the "little man" over the companies?

Are you training to become a comedian?
I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts.
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DemoMonkey
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Re: Doug Ford wins elections in Ontario

Post by DemoMonkey » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:29 pm

Are you training to become a comedian?

Yes. The 50 km hike carrying a full load of insecurity and narcissism is rough, but it's really having to get up at the crack of 4 PM that gets to you.

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Re: Doug Ford wins elections in Ontario

Post by ZedF » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:59 am

DemoMonkey wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:12 pm
Debt will crush this province long before any other issue gets close. All the progressive social program goodwill in the world is useless at best and destructive at worst if it can't be paid for.
Debt management is an issue, I don't necessarily agree that it is the issue to rule all issues. (e.g. Deficit spending to stimulate growth in a flagging economy may be unavoidable, regardless of who's in power, and we've had some of that.) But even if I were to grant that debt is a big issue, I don't think your conclusion should necessarily be to vote Conservative just because of their past record. Once upon a time this sort of Conservatives = fiscal responsibility argument might have held some merit, but the Conservative party is not what it once was.

If debt is the issue for you, it seems to me your vote is inconsistent with your statement of principle. A political party whose platform promises the moon and the stars without a way to pay for it, or even a clear plan, is more likely to deficit spend than its rivals, not less. You are assuming this particular Conservative government is going to be fiscally responsible, when all available evidence points to the contrary.
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Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

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