If you were a Klingon Commanding Officer on a recently captured Enterprise

All off-topic, non-Kerberos chatter. Saw a flick? Read a comic? Heard a tune? Got some news? Do it here, please and thanks.

Moderator: Erinys

Post Reply
User avatar
Sebastian
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 4:18 pm

If you were a Klingon Commanding Officer on a recently captured Enterprise

Post by Sebastian » Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:20 am

If you were a Klingon Commanding Officer on a recently captured Enterprise, would you or would you not decommission the android known as Data.

Reference of “Data’s” malfeasance:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H2Wxqnbuh ... e=youtu.be

An android has no sense or understanding of honor. Therefore such a being cannot be trusted and his contributions to the command of such a vessel as the Enterprise can be discarded as without merit or purpose.

Therefore as the commander of the Enterprise and representative of the Klingon Empire would you choose to decommission the android Data or confine him to civilian quarters for the duration of the trip to Kronos?

ZedF
Board Ninja
Board Ninja
Posts: 12626
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:13 pm

Re: If you were a Klingon Commanding Officer on a recently captured Enterprise

Post by ZedF » Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:54 pm

Whatever the plot dictates.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs


Defenestar
Posts: 992
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:51 am

Re: If you were a Klingon Commanding Officer on a recently captured Enterprise

Post by Defenestar » Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:54 pm

The android is an anomaly. The Federation's view of appropriate behaviour, honour, is alien to the Klingon way, but it's hard to say it isn't functional. Similarly, the android is itself somewhat alien to the Federation's view of appropriate behaviour. It might be useful in understanding how the Federation thinks, and thus how best to engage with them.

So I say keep the android confined for philosophical discussions and the occasional friendly knife fight.

User avatar
Sebastian
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 4:18 pm

Re: If you were a Klingon Commanding Officer on a recently captured Enterprise

Post by Sebastian » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:53 am

I feel like star trek never really engaged with the concept of “AI”. In one of the first eps i ever watched they had a smartass computer but nothing really came of it. To this day i relate my trauma of dealing with SOTS “AI” to the question of, “can we really make an intelligence”. “If it’s not trying to kill you, is it really intelligent?”

User avatar
Sebastian
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 4:18 pm

Re: If you were a Klingon Commanding Officer on a recently captured Enterprise

Post by Sebastian » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:59 am

Lol this guy at the bar just said klingons are famous for mining and he would use data to mine rocks. Not sure i approve

ZedF
Board Ninja
Board Ninja
Posts: 12626
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:13 pm

Re: If you were a Klingon Commanding Officer on a recently captured Enterprise

Post by ZedF » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:16 am

Sebastian wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:53 am
To this day i relate my trauma of dealing with SOTS “AI” to the question of, “can we really make an intelligence”. “If it’s not trying to kill you, is it really intelligent?”
I dunno, you’re not trying to kill me, are you intelligent?

Twenty years ago my wife and I made an intelligence, which so far has not tried to kill us.

If I make an AI that’s about human intelligence, it would have to be pretty insane to think that going hostile when outnumbered billions to one by people that hold all the resources and power in that relationship would be a good idea. You need either for there to be a lot more AIs or an AI that’s a lot smarter than humans for that dynamic to change.

Really the better question is, why do we want artificial general AI in the first place when expert systems give us 80-90% of the benefit with 0% of the ethical quandaries and risk of AI rebellion?

I don’t really find the question in the OP thought provoking because Data, as written, is an obvious fiction - so any consideration of such a hypothetical situation must consider the needs of the story first, and ‘realism’ a distant second.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

User avatar
Mecron
Kerberos
Posts: 38784
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:26 pm

Re: If you were a Klingon Commanding Officer on a recently captured Enterprise

Post by Mecron » Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:05 pm

My favorite observation about the flaws of AI research was with an Senior professor in the field and during the interview he was asked..

"Would your AI believe in God?"

And the professor looked vexed for a moment and said "I suppose it would if I programmed it to."

And my only thought was "This man has never raised children."

ZedF
Board Ninja
Board Ninja
Posts: 12626
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:13 pm

Re: If you were a Klingon Commanding Officer on a recently captured Enterprise

Post by ZedF » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:17 pm

An expert system would say that it believes in God only if it were programmed to say that, but once you get beyond expert systems that’s not the right way to be thinking.

The whole point of artificial general intelligence is to imbue an artificial construct with human-level intelligence, choice, and agency. At that point, I fully agree it only makes sense to go about treating it and thinking about it as you would a human being, child or otherwise.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

User avatar
Mecron
Kerberos
Posts: 38784
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:26 pm

Re: If you were a Klingon Commanding Officer on a recently captured Enterprise

Post by Mecron » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:06 pm

lol I am the guy who yells at the TV "EXPERT SYSTEM!!!" almost every time a reporter says "Today we are using an AI for..."

NO you aren't!!! there is not such damn thing as an AI yet!!!!

ZedF
Board Ninja
Board Ninja
Posts: 12626
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:13 pm

Re: If you were a Klingon Commanding Officer on a recently captured Enterprise

Post by ZedF » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:36 pm

I guess they are calling expert systems ‘narrow AI’ now because people are lazy about language and AI is easier to spell than expert system. But it does make it more confusing, because people are lazy about language… :P
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

User avatar
Slashman
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:39 am

Re: If you were a Klingon Commanding Officer on a recently captured Enterprise

Post by Slashman » Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:04 pm

I have to say I kinda blame game developers for this (I'm sure they aren't the only ones but that's where I see it the most).

No one corrects the masses on the forums when they refer to things as AIs in games where they really aren't. And it leads to all sorts of misconceptions and expectations that just are not realistic. No the "AI" in Endless Space 2 cannot see your plot to betray it and will not go about forming an elaborate counter-plot to backstab you involving other "AIs"
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.

User avatar
Mecron
Kerberos
Posts: 38784
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:26 pm

Re: If you were a Klingon Commanding Officer on a recently captured Enterprise

Post by Mecron » Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:33 pm

yeah except it doesn't kill people in gaming like it does in Airliners where new pilots expect the "AI" to understand what the ground is.

User avatar
Slashman
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:39 am

Re: If you were a Klingon Commanding Officer on a recently captured Enterprise

Post by Slashman » Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:37 pm

Aren't pilots supposed to know better though? I mean I cannot imagine a scenario where you are flying an airplane and think that the onboard computer is just as competent as a human. But maybe that's my tech brain thinking and not whatever people are using to judge the competence of an "AI".

I mean...have we learned nothing from the self-driving car craze that has gripped Musk?
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.

Post Reply

Return to “Off Topic Misc.”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests