The "Women in Gaming" Thread

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Mecron
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Re: The "Women in Gaming" Thread

Post by Mecron » Fri May 15, 2015 5:55 pm

Bingo

The Apprentice
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Re: The "Women in Gaming" Thread

Post by The Apprentice » Sat May 16, 2015 1:57 am

fiendishrabbit wrote:...The Witcher 3 doesn't just depict a misogynistic world. It does so in a misogynistic fashion.
Polygon has the right of it. It doesn't just depict a misogynistic world (which is OK imho if done right, though Anita Sarkeesian might disagree), it does so in a way where both the story and the stylistics of the game are misogynistic.

The real scandal isn't polygons review, it's the reaction to it.


I read this, and made the mistake of reading Poly's review (which seemed open and transparent) and then descending into comment land.

I should not have done that. It sucked me in for 20 min before I pulled out of the rabbit hole.

I didn't finish the Witcher 2 partially because the inhabitants of the world seemed so unnecessarily cruel and petty. Not evil, but hurtful for the sake of being hurtful. It looks like W3 has continued along that path, at least with regards to women. Disheartening.
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Re: The "Women in Gaming" Thread

Post by Mecron » Sat May 16, 2015 2:17 am

and it will continue to be disheartening till people turn away from it in numbers great enough to hurt. This is why the whining of GG makes me laugh so much...because literally if their numbers are as large as they say, then they have absolutely nothing to fear no matter how many "SJW reviews" are written.

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Re: The "Women in Gaming" Thread

Post by Slashman » Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:42 pm

The Apprentice wrote:I read this, and made the mistake of reading Poly's review (which seemed open and transparent) and then descending into comment land.

I should not have done that. It sucked me in for 20 min before I pulled out of the rabbit hole.

I didn't finish the Witcher 2 partially because the inhabitants of the world seemed so unnecessarily cruel and petty. Not evil, but hurtful for the sake of being hurtful. It looks like W3 has continued along that path, at least with regards to women. Disheartening.


I haven't played The Witcher 3, but I am on my second run of the Witcher 2 taking the second path for the middle chapter.

I don't entirely agree that it's unnecessarily cruel. I think it portrays the sort of things people are capable of doing when there is no law or structure to hold them accountable. Or worse, when the ones who lead fail to enforce justice/justness instead of self-gratification.

Based on its source material, I'd say it's close to A Song of Ice and Fire in its portrayal of the treatment of women in a medieval setting. Whether one considers that inappropriate or not is up to the individual. I'd say there are a few points where it crosses (or comes very close to crossing) the line, but I didn't find that it ruined the game experience as a whole.
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Re: The "Women in Gaming" Thread

Post by Vanish » Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:10 am

Slashman wrote:Based on its source material, I'd say it's close to A Song of Ice and Fire in its portrayal of the treatment of women in a medieval setting. Whether one considers that inappropriate or not is up to the individual. I'd say there are a few points where it crosses (or comes very close to crossing) the line, but I didn't find that it ruined the game experience as a whole.

That's like saying Assassin's Creed:U and Far Cry 4 not having any playable female characters is fine, since they draw inspiration from Middle-East and N/S Korean cultures :twisted:
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Re: The "Women in Gaming" Thread

Post by The Magus » Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:59 pm

That sounds like saying something completely different. A Song of Ice and Fire is known for depicting horrible misogynistic attitudes, culture, and violent rape, but George R. R. Martin is actually somewhat respected as feminist literature. This is because of the almost stupidly simple fact that despite the horribleness in the setting women are still people and flesh and blood characters. And what's more is there is no lack of them as if an entire gender could be absent from all the important events in a world. Phrased another way, unlike certain oppressive stances that tend to whitewash half our species out of history, ASoIF does not write from such a point of view. Depicting cruel and ignorant behavior did not dampen this, but instead respected it. As it often will, material that tries to depict this type of atmosphere walk a thin line and some things will be questionable and should be questioned.

Witcher 3 is very much like ASoIF on this and has exceedingly well written, human characters that does not let "female" act like a stopgap to a character's identity. This is not the same thing as forgetting that half your player base might prefer to play as a woman when designing their own personal characters(let alone the idea that somehow there wouldn't be female assassins in a fight for liberty) and then getting pinned to the wall for your absent mindedness.
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Re: The "Women in Gaming" Thread

Post by Azrael Ultima » Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:08 pm

So, in short, it's a misogynistic world, not misogynistic writing?
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Re: The "Women in Gaming" Thread

Post by Mecron » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:30 pm

Depends how you look at it. You can make any factual situation pornographic in the literal sense of the word by what you choose to focus on.

Lets try to realize that there are women in the source material of Fire and Ice who manage to get through all the books WITHOUT getting graphically raped...The TV show somewhat undermines that by cutting away characters but making sure to keep all the rape scenes to the point where some characters are doubling or tripling up on their allotted rapes.

Sometimes you have to grow up to the point where you can ask "Why?" even if its about something you otherwise like.

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Re: The "Women in Gaming" Thread

Post by Slashman » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:44 pm

Mecron wrote:Depends how you look at it. You can make any factual situation pornographic in the literal sense of the word by what you choose to focus on.

Lets try to realize that there are women in the source material of Fire and Ice who manage to get through all the books WITHOUT getting graphically raped...The TV show somewhat undermines that by cutting away characters but making sure to keep all the rape scenes to the point where some characters are doubling or tripling up on their allotted rapes.

Sometimes you have to grow up to the point where you can ask "Why?" even if its about something you otherwise like.


I agree on the TV show GoT perspective. I just don't think that applies to The Witcher games (up to 2 anyway). Especially in 2 where you get to see much more of the sorceresses' power and Saskia as well as other female characters like Ves in action. I don't think they represent women badly in the games from this perspective. But that's just my opinion.
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Re: The "Women in Gaming" Thread

Post by Mecron » Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:28 pm

Isnt the review in question for W3?

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Re: The "Women in Gaming" Thread

Post by Slashman » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:20 am

Mecron wrote:Isnt the review in question for W3?


Indeed. I was more referring to The Apprentice's post that he couldn't finish W2 for similar reasons.

I haven't bought W3 yet and may well wait for the run of 15 DLCs and the planned expansions before I do.
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Re: The "Women in Gaming" Thread

Post by Azrael Ultima » Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:23 pm

Well, it certainly goes to show how cruel the reviewer is, with that, given that she/he decided to keep going.
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Re: The "Women in Gaming" Thread

Post by Slashman » Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:30 pm

Azrael Ultima wrote:Well, it certainly goes to show how cruel the reviewer is, with that, given that she/he decided to keep going.


Sometimes people are so driven by the need to prove a point, they'll overlook that there were alternatives to the bad situation they say was forced on them.

I actually made a similar mistake when I used to play City of Heroes/City of Villains. I was doing a storyline where a woman was going to be tortured and killed for helping the homeless in the villains' city. I didn't realize that I could have skipped the last timed mission in the sequence and she would have escaped (I was fixated on being a completionist). I felt pretty bummed even though I was playing a villain, but I can't really say that the game forced it on my character. I just didn't take the option.
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Re: The "Women in Gaming" Thread

Post by Mecron » Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:22 pm

do you guys ever feel weird about being dudes and commenting on how its all not a problem? Just curious, cause I can participate on the issues at a low level, but whenever I find myself explaining to whatever group is the focus of the conversation, (be it women, minorities, special needs, what have you) that whatever is bothering them is not really a big deal, I suddenly stop, realize what it is that I am doing, and start feeling like a complete fucking asshole.

Weird, eh?

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Re: The "Women in Gaming" Thread

Post by Slashman » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:41 pm

Does it matter if that accusation is true or not? Should it not matter?
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