Pavlov's Democracy

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screamingpalm
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Re: Pavlov's Democracy

Post by screamingpalm » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:39 pm

Alright so... I just wanted to say thank-you for allowing me to voice a different view here. I find it rare to be able to have a conversation like this these days with the left. I haven't been banned here, so that's refreshing. It's also nice to see that Kerberos is more left of center minded- I won't have to boycott like I did a well-known publisher that banned me for calling out one of their mods for making a statement that whites are intellectually superior to minorities. So thanks for being awesome heh.

As for saying Clinton would be better and wouldn't make budget cuts, I would have to disagree. The reason I say this, is because I still remember when he first took office and made massive, sweeping cuts to the federal government and was when my father retired early from the GSA (Government Services Administration) as a COBOL programmer. Last thing I wanted to point, before I go binge on The Pit tonight :D, is that Democrats and Republicans generally end up arriving at the same end game. The biggest real difference that I see, is the tactics used to get there. While Reps are blatantly transparent about it (which makes it easier to fight imo), the Dems play off of misinformation and use sneaky tactics. For example, they will claim that we are running out of money and that taxes fund federal programs and spending (none of which is true) and then play a game of Sophie's Choice where they play the role of savior in rescuing a social program from the chopping block after claiming that we can only choose one or the other.

There are a few Democrats that I still support, but they are far and few between. More often than not, it comes back to bite me in the ass. Case in point- I voted for a Dem for state treasurer who ended up casting the deciding vote to clear cut one of our state forests. Now, if anyone knows how we roll in Oregon- especially Portland, that went down like a lead balloon, and after the outrage, he changed his mind... but still.

At the end of the day, I respect the opinion of those that think she would have been better, but I simply do not have any evidence to suggest that she would be- or even much different to be honest.

ZedF
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Re: Pavlov's Democracy

Post by ZedF » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:04 am

Policy-wise, Clinton would not have done bad things not because she wouldn't want to do things, some of which might be bad... but because given a Republican controlled Congress, she would not be able to do anything really destructive. Trump has certainly been trying to do destructive things policy-wise, and in some cases succeeding.

On non-policy issues I don't think you can make a case that Clinton is anywhere near the same city, let alone the same ballpark, as Trump, as far as dangerous and destructive behavior goes. Do you really think she would be provoking Iran and North Korea, alienating all the US's long-standing allies with boorish and stupid behavior, and colluding with Russia? Or anything else remotely as foolhardy? Be realistic here; of course not, she would be employing the state department rather than marginalizing it and engaging in diplomacy rather than trading insults and threats.

As far as Trump being more obvious and easier to fight on culture war issues goes, maybe, but that cuts both ways; he's also empowering those on the right who believe bigotry is ok or at least tolerable, dragging the US's cultural center toward the right, and promoting disunity and discord. This is an inherently risky thing to be doing in a world where people drive cars or fire automatic weapons into crowds of those that disagree with them. Clinton would not be doing her level best to inflame the culture wars further toward more extreme actions.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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Mecron
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Re: Pavlov's Democracy

Post by Mecron » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:24 pm

Loved bernie...was super dubious about hillary's corporate stance...but equating her to current trump is ridiculous and EXTREMELY dubious in terms of agenda pushing.

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Re: Pavlov's Democracy

Post by Torezu » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:16 am


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Slashman
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Re: Pavlov's Democracy

Post by Slashman » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:56 pm

Dear America, do you truly want to start making your way toward being this kind of country?

If the answer is no, then it may be time for some serious introspection and a critical look at removing your current "President", from office.
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.

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Mecron
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Re: Pavlov's Democracy

Post by Mecron » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:31 pm

Yes and trump congratulated that president on taking more power.

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Slashman
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Re: Pavlov's Democracy

Post by Slashman » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:37 pm

Of course Trump did.
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.

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Sebastian
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Re: Pavlov's Democracy

Post by Sebastian » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:17 pm

Just re upped my DSA membership :twisted:

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Sebastian
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Re: Pavlov's Democracy

Post by Sebastian » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:01 pm

I'm deeply ashamed to admit that the recent net neutrality thing has me more pissed off than everything else

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Slashman
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Re: Pavlov's Democracy

Post by Slashman » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:06 am

And we see a classic Republican play to make the rich richer (because that always works out great for everyone!).

Enjoy your bigly wins USA!
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.

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marshb
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Re: Pavlov's Democracy

Post by marshb » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:04 pm

Slashman wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:06 am
And we see a classic Republican play to make the rich richer (because that always works out great for everyone!).

Enjoy your bigly wins USA!
We've seen this before. Yikes!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... a87d3b5852
Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future.

Orison of Sonmi-451

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Slashman
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Re: Pavlov's Democracy

Post by Slashman » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:28 pm

I just hope people are taking note that all the "decent' GOP members are the ones who voted yes. That includes war vet and patriot John Mccain.
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.

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Mecron
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Re: Pavlov's Democracy

Post by Mecron » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:56 pm

On a tangental note: There have been a number of prominent articles about the early days and formation of Soviet Russia and the russian model of communism which have been insightful yet almost all of them leave out any mention of pre-revolution conditions and their contribution towards both the popular choice of communism and as a motivator for supporting it when it started to go off the rails.

It's almost as if its become a thing to view revolutions as a mental disorder as opposed to a result of a stimuli.

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marshb
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Re: Pavlov's Democracy

Post by marshb » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:40 am

Mecron wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:56 pm
On a tangental note: There have been a number of prominent articles about the early days and formation of Soviet Russia and the russian model of communism which have been insightful yet almost all of them leave out any mention of pre-revolution conditions and their contribution towards both the popular choice of communism and as a motivator for supporting it when it started to go off the rails.

It's almost as if its become a thing to view revolutions as a mental disorder as opposed to a result of a stimuli.
Hasn't it always been thus, at least in capitalist countries? Any mention of socialist tendencies tend to get shouted down immediately much less analysis of its origins. Got to nip it in the bud lest people get ideas. Of course it doesn't stop the revolution from happening anyways. Wait. Were these scholarly articles? 'cause that would make a big difference.
Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future.

Orison of Sonmi-451

ZedF
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Re: Pavlov's Democracy

Post by ZedF » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:59 am

Not really, outside of the US. People in other western countries are more likely to judge based on policy specifics, rather than assuming anything labelled socialism is automatically bad. This is especially true for instance in Scandinavia. Additionally, people in western countries outside the US are more likely to differentiate between communism and socialism, recognizing they are not the same thing and don't have the same connotations.

That said, this topic seems like a tangent to Mec's tangent, as I feel like he was trying to talk about more about revolution and less about socialism.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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