STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI *spoilers* 'cause I can't keep secrets!

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Slashman
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Re: STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI *spoilers* 'cause I can't keep secrets!

Post by Slashman » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:30 pm

Well it seems like only 47% of Rotten Tomatoes audience members didn't yawn so go figure. Is this where we argue that movie reviewers are stellar now and the audience needs to be seriously adjusted?
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Re: STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI *spoilers* 'cause I can't keep secrets!

Post by Cpt. Awesome » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:39 pm

I'm happy for all the people who enjoyed the entire movie. I just wish I was one of them.

I wouldn't get too caught up in the contrast between critic and audience reviews. Too many people online are trying to force a consensus and have poisoned the well. Time will ultimately tell.

So I did enjoy most of the Luke-Rey-Kylo thread. Hopefully episode 9 will pay off and make episodes 7 & 8 better for it.

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Re: STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI *spoilers* 'cause I can't keep secrets!

Post by Defenestar » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:09 am

I liked it. Could have done with more of Finn and company, Phazma seemed very under-utilized, couple plot issues here and there, but I did enjoy it. Frankly, as much of it as there was I think it might have benefited from being two movies, give things a bit more space.

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Re: STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI *spoilers* 'cause I can't keep secrets!

Post by Slashman » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:48 am

Finn and Rose's mission ended up not contributing very much except maybe to setup a possible love triangle. Well I suppose it also made Finn realize that rushing headlong into your death is not really the point of the resistance's fight.

The reason I brought up the RT score is that there seems to be only two accepted opinions about this movie. Either its totally awesome or it crucified everything that was Star Wars and sucked donkey balls. You tend to draw more ire if you're in the camp that thinks it was OK but didn't rock your world.
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Re: STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI *spoilers* 'cause I can't keep secrets!

Post by marshb » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:02 am

Slashman wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:48 am
Finn and Rose's mission ended up not contributing very much...
This and almost every other plot line in the movie shared the same futility. That was the theme of this episode. Hopefully the characters learn from all of the mistakes they have been making. My only fear is will the makers of the next movie live up to bar they have setup the characters for.
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Re: STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI *spoilers* 'cause I can't keep secrets!

Post by Cpt. Awesome » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:39 pm

The movie felt like I was binge watching 5-6 netflix episodes of Starwars and not a finely tuned movie.

Slashman wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:48 am
The reason I brought up the RT score is that there seems to be only two accepted opinions about this movie... You tend to draw more ire if you're in the camp that thinks it was OK but didn't rock your world.
Explains much.

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Re: STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI *spoilers* 'cause I can't keep secrets!

Post by Mecron » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:38 am

a) what delusional world of war does anyone believe in that every mission saves the universe?...most of the time crap goes sideways and the victory is returning with everyone who left.

b) I am not sure that a movie has to rock any world in order to be good but I am damn sure I am pretty bored of predictable reactions. Both ridiculous geek males and passive aggressive ones are just getting so...bloody...tedious.

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Re: STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI *spoilers* 'cause I can't keep secrets!

Post by Slashman » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:07 am

Mecron wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:38 am

b) I am not sure that a movie has to rock any world in order to be good but I am damn sure I am pretty bored of predictable reactions. Both ridiculous geek males and passive aggressive ones are just getting so...bloody...tedious.
Why is it so important that everyone love this movie? Because it is objectively good? Is that like Back to the Future objectively good? What is so significant about this particular movie?
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.

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Re: STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI *spoilers* 'cause I can't keep secrets!

Post by DemoMonkey » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:01 pm

It's entirely possible to dislike "The Last Jedi" without being ridiculous or passive aggressive.

I didn't like it. But I also recognize that as someone in the demographic of " pre-existing fan who saw A New Hope in it's first run in theatres", it was never relevant whether I liked it. I'm not the target audience.

It's a franchise builder for a new audience, and a critical (as opposed to subjective) analysis of whether it succeeds as a movie has to be based on how well it caters to THAT audience. Both Yodas speech and one of Kylo Rens pretty much spell that out.

""We are what they grow beyond."

"The Empire, your parents, the Resistance, the Sith, the Jedi... let the past die. Kill it, if you have to. That's the only way to become what you are meant to be."

Time to pass the torch. You can pass it gracefully, or not, but it will be passed.

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Re: STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI *spoilers* 'cause I can't keep secrets!

Post by Mecron » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:17 pm

Slash no one has to love anything but I weary of transparent negatives. Something I have come to call "The Torchwood Effect" in recognition of the show I first started to notice it.


Demo...excellently put. I think both movies of this last arc make that clear in various ways. This is not "My" star wars and the deeper truth is that it NEVER was. It was a piece of art that I enjoyed and connected with. That's it. To punish other art for having something to say about the same things 40 years later is childish as best. 40 years ago there were people clueless about some of the messages in Star Wars and lo and behold, there still is. Which is ok! All that has really changed is that clueless people used to sense they were clueless and often felt a bit of shame about blathering in public. Lots of folks didn't "get" 2001, but they suspected the problem was with them and not the art so the stfu'd about it in public. Now, everyone is a perfect rainbow regardless of their level of obliviousness. I could do without this but I am old and did the time to become a professional writer and reviewer so YMMV.

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Re: STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI *spoilers* 'cause I can't keep secrets!

Post by Cpt. Awesome » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:55 am

I agree Demo, they weren't exactly subtle about passing the torch. Pretty self evident.

I believe you are included in the target audience. Disney has explicitly and implicitly stated so in multiple ways through the movie and outside of it. At the very least, anyone with a buck to spend is the target audience.

People CAN have issue with a movie on a technical level without taking issue with the messages.

There is a dichotomy in this thread between "target audience", a term that is business specific, and "art" which can be engaged with on a personal level by anyone.

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Re: STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI *spoilers* 'cause I can't keep secrets!

Post by Mecron » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:00 pm

k as much as I REALLY do not care for Disney...anyone care to point out EXACT Disney elements or is this all communication via anal variance? Cause, ya know, as a professional writer AND critic, I am a lil hard pressed to see anything I cannot attribute to non lucas writing by anyone competent.

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Re: STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI *spoilers* 'cause I can't keep secrets!

Post by Slashman » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:48 pm

I can't recall anything I would identify as a specific "Disney" element. Unless I dozed off when Snoke did that stirring rendition of "Poor unfortunate souls". :googly:

After having taken another look at it, for myself I think that the movie is pretty decent, but I personally just did not care for the themes it presented in Star Wars. Those messages aren't bad or poorly placed. I've seen them in many other films and books over the years. Breaking away from flawed traditions of the past to embrace the future is a worthwhile message. That's how societies and people grow to forge their own paths and also this is symbolic of breaking away from the previous 6 films. I don't think there are many people who don't get it. Or at least I'd like to think that was pretty clear.

For myself, though, I just wanted to see Rey get trained into a badass Jedi by Luke and have the two of them return to kick the crap out of Snoke and Kylo once and for all. I wanted to finally see a good Jedi wielding both sides of the force, throwing lightning, using force drains, grips and the entire spectrum of it in a huge all-in battle. I wanted to finally see a Sith Lord in his prime go up against another master Jedi with all the spectacle that would imply. And I wanted the light-saber choreography of the meh prequel films because that was the highlight of them for me. I played a ton of Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy back in the day and I finally wanted to see some of that translated into the films.

I didn't get that stuff and I guess I probably won't get it now unless they pull out something crazy for the next film. So meh for me I guess.
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Re: STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI *spoilers* 'cause I can't keep secrets!

Post by Mecron » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:06 pm

Yeah...for me having a climatic battle between a "light" force and a "dark" force champion be all about the bad ass fighting would have left me feeling cheated actually. As if the series has been kinda pointless.

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Re: STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI *spoilers* 'cause I can't keep secrets!

Post by Slashman » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:51 pm

I was ready for it to be about some badass fighting even if just for a bit.
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