Is BR Storage on BR Carriers Too Much?

Discuss ships, sections, and designs.

Moderator: Erinys

Post Reply
User avatar
Pavane
Posts: 452
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:19 pm

Is BR Storage on BR Carriers Too Much?

Post by Pavane » Mon May 13, 2013 3:30 pm

All factions have cruiser sized battle rider carriers capable of carrying three BR and storing and additional six BR somewhere. Looking at the ships, I don't see any possible place for storage of six additional BRs. BR losses can even be replaced in an enemy system during the strategic turn by taking BRs out of storage, or even from another BR carrier. I can see perhaps one or at most two BR in storage on the BR carrier, but six is unbelievable.

Choosing a FTL capable ship vs. a FTL carrier with non-FTL riders should pose a tactical doctrine choice for players. The BR carrier with riders will out-gun a FTL cruiser, but the BR cannot retreat from the system by themselves and the BR losses need to be replaced. The first negative aspect of a BR carrier works if you target and destroy the BR carrier itself; the BRs disappear at the end of the battle round (I haven't actually tested this). The BR attrition challenge has been mitigated though by the high on-board storage factor, so are BR carriers unbalanced? I have only just started using them in earnest, so I do not have enough experience to answer that question.
Stellar Union

User avatar
Resok
Kerbicron Cleric
Kerbicron Cleric
Posts: 3568
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:58 pm

Re: Is BR Storage on BR Carriers Too Much?

Post by Resok » Mon May 13, 2013 6:10 pm

Well I'd hardly call any BR carrier strategy to be unbalanced. Dedicated PD ships and heavy PD coverage in your fleets can grind your BR fleets to dust quite rapidly especially when maintaining a tight formation. BRs have hard counters and each BR lost does cost you to replace (both in production time and in savings). Beyond this, if any BR carrier that is packing 6 additional backup BRs is destroyed in battle - POOF, all backups destroyed also further increasing the cost of each carrier loss.

Personally I think that the large amount of BR storage is a slight abstraction... though I don't think it has any significant unbalancing factor to it by itself. What it does do is potentially reduce some micromanagement of having to return back to a colony to load new BRs.
Image

User avatar
marshb
Posts: 2600
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:25 pm

Post by marshb » Mon May 13, 2013 8:33 pm

Resok wrote:Well I'd hardly call any BR carrier strategy to be unbalanced. Dedicated PD ships and heavy PD coverage in your fleets can grind your BR fleets to dust quite rapidly especially when maintaining a tight formation. BRs have hard counters and each BR lost does cost you to replace (both in production time and in savings). Beyond this, if any BR carrier that is packing 6 additional backup BRs is destroyed in battle - POOF, all backups destroyed also further increasing the cost of each carrier loss.

Personally I think that the large amount of BR storage is a slight abstraction... though I don't think it has any significant unbalancing factor to it by itself. What it does do is potentially reduce some micromanagement of having to return back to a colony to load new BRs.

Yeah, to make it less abstract and more micro you'd probably need to research a fancy tech to make supply ships cruiser/dred a BR Tender to repair and/or resupply BRs for the carriors. Right now, making the carriors their own "tender" simplifies things a lot.
Would be cool if that were in the game, but only to "logistics" nerds like me. :P
Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future.

Orison of Sonmi-451

sob
Posts: 635
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 2:40 pm

Re: Is BR Storage on BR Carriers Too Much?

Post by sob » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:04 am

i just thought they were parts kept in storage and when needed it gets assembled.

And if you fly a BR only Fleet you asking for trouble
you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

CPO Mzinyati

User avatar
Pavane
Posts: 452
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:19 pm

Re: Is BR Storage on BR Carriers Too Much?

Post by Pavane » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:21 am

I thought about that, but it would still likely take up too much room. The game abstraction argument is the most compelling. There is no need to add BR storage on supply ships as it would be a needless complication. I have used BR more since the original post and they are certainly not overpowered. I haven't tried BC or BB yet.
Stellar Union

User avatar
Aranador
Posts: 597
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:30 pm

Re: Is BR Storage on BR Carriers Too Much?

Post by Aranador » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:01 am

For what it is worth - I seldom bother to place 'spare' BRs on the ships anyway. If the ship dies, the spares die with it. I'll keep spares at a 'safe' base, and if a fleet needs replentishment, they'll come back home, because chances are, they need repairs too. Especially given the nature of the mission system, where you will come back home anyway.

User avatar
Resok
Kerbicron Cleric
Kerbicron Cleric
Posts: 3568
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:58 pm

Re: Is BR Storage on BR Carriers Too Much?

Post by Resok » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:15 am

Well if you can't keep the carriers safe you generally have bigger problems I agree.

However I'll say that in many MP battles I've had the backup BRs are invaluable to enabling a longer siege of a system that often is needed against a strongly fortified system.

Shields can really protect the fragile carriers from significant weapons fire but not having replacement BRs to present the mobile threat ahead of the carriers is a bigger death sentence.
Image

sob
Posts: 635
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 2:40 pm

Re: Is BR Storage on BR Carriers Too Much?

Post by sob » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:49 pm

Pavane wrote:I thought about that, but it would still likely take up too much room. The game abstraction argument is the most compelling. There is no need to add BR storage on supply ships as it would be a needless complication. I have used BR more since the original post and they are certainly not overpowered. I haven't tried BC or BB yet.


BC and BB are beastest. They really nothing simlarer to BR
you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

CPO Mzinyati

User avatar
Mecron
Kerberos
Posts: 38411
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:26 pm

Re: Is BR Storage on BR Carriers Too Much?

Post by Mecron » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:26 pm

yes those spare BR's ARE in storage...try looking up how little room a spitfire or mustang took up relative to its flight mode. There is a reason it takes a strat turn to move those BR's from storage to flight deck ;)

User avatar
Pavane
Posts: 452
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:19 pm

Re: Is BR Storage on BR Carriers Too Much?

Post by Pavane » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:48 pm

Mecron wrote:yes those spare BR's ARE in storage...try looking up how little room a spitfire or mustang took up relative to its flight mode. There is a reason it takes a strat turn to move those BR's from storage to flight deck ;)

Thanks for the clarification. It always makes a game more compelling when you can visualise how things work, and your example makes sense.
Stellar Union

User avatar
Nall White
Posts: 1304
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:10 am

Re: Is BR Storage on BR Carriers Too Much?

Post by Nall White » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:49 pm

Mecron wrote:yes those spare BR's ARE in storage...try looking up how little room a spitfire or mustang took up relative to its flight mode. There is a reason it takes a strat turn to move those BR's from storage to flight deck ;)

Is this done auto-magically?
I'm NOT a cat!

User avatar
BlueTemplar
Posts: 3131
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:15 am

Re: Is BR Storage on BR Carriers Too Much?

Post by BlueTemplar » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:48 am

Related : I heard that Supply CR could carry (but not deploy) BR's. Is that true?

User avatar
Mecron
Kerberos
Posts: 38411
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:26 pm

Re: Is BR Storage on BR Carriers Too Much?

Post by Mecron » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:47 pm

blue yes

ForceUser
Posts: 1191
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:58 pm

Re: Is BR Storage on BR Carriers Too Much?

Post by ForceUser » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:29 pm

Nall White wrote:
Mecron wrote:yes those spare BR's ARE in storage...try looking up how little room a spitfire or mustang took up relative to its flight mode. There is a reason it takes a strat turn to move those BR's from storage to flight deck ;)

Is this done auto-magically?

Well a strat turn is 3 months. I could see a carrier assembling BRs in 3 months if the carrier was designed to do it.
Perspective Man: Much like common sense, it's so rare it's a gorram superpower.
Agent.nihilist wrote:Ooo! Whats the gesture for ramming!?
Korgan wrote:probably a pelvic thrust
Mecron wrote:oy that is wrong at so many levels...well done! :P

User avatar
BlueTemplar
Posts: 3131
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:15 am

Re: Is BR Storage on BR Carriers Too Much?

Post by BlueTemplar » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:34 pm

Since when? AFAIK, considering between-star distances (RealSpace, SotSverse maps) and the speed limit for STL of 0.99, 1 turn = 1 year.

Post Reply

Return to “The Ships”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest