FACTION: SOL FORCE

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Erinys
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Re: FACTION: SOL FORCE

Post by Erinys » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:22 am

Two words: Ashilde Falke.

Two more words: Independent Colonies.

Where did you think those came from? ;)

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Azrael Ultima
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Re: FACTION: SOL FORCE

Post by Azrael Ultima » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:31 am

ZedF wrote:I don't know that they are necessarily unaware of their condition. I imagine most engrams opted into becoming one -- it takes a live mind to form an engram, after all, and I imagine most empires wouldn't force people into the process.

Given their limitations, i'd say any unwilling engrams would be pretty much useless. Not only would they still be unwilling after the procedure, you can't even convince them otherwise anymore.
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Ludovsky
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Re: FACTION: SOL FORCE

Post by Ludovsky » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:22 pm

Hmm... thinking back on engram though, it seems like their personality is what hiunder aquisition of new knowledge/world views.

But I was curious, what about an engram of a scientist or someone similar who was all about aquiring at the very least new "scientific" knowledge and other such aquisition of knowledge via experimentation and so on?

I assume some things like political and philosophical views they had at the time would remain frozen, but I was wondering in regard of a personality driven by the aquisition of knowledge and such improvement of it, would function like as an engram?

Or would they be currently frozen in the current "theories"/fields they were involved in at the time of being engrammed?

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Erinys
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Re: FACTION: SOL FORCE

Post by Erinys » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:38 pm

In general, you need to think of them as a person whose brain does not function the way it did. They are NOT Loa. What you have created is a version of the deceased which is afflicted with a strange, selective brain disorder.

You can give them new facts. They may be able to process them on the spot and spit back out an action or a response that is worthwhile, interesting, even one that saves the day. But two days later when you mention this new fact, they will have forgotten it again, unless they've been brooding on it continuously.

If what you're working on is a field where the basic core knowledge doesn't change too quickly, an engram can still help you a great deal. But if you had an engram of Stephen Hawking, you would have to explain Node Space, then build on that explanation, and then NOT let him rest or switch tasks for any significant length of time if you wanted him to work on a Node Space problem. He could probably grasp the theory and math and become quite interested in the work. But if you let him forget, you would find yourself having to explain things all over again when he came back to it. He would have to review his own notes as if a stranger wrote them. Etc..

An engram with certain kinds of knowledge can still be a very dangerous adversary, even hundreds, thousands or even millions of years after the person's physical death, if that person had the right knowledge and personality in life. Witness the famous episode of Babylon 5 which features a battle of wits with Garibaldi's engram. He doesn't start out knowing what's going on, but Garibaldi in life was a quick study. His ghost is still deadly, and still a hero.

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Erinys
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Re: FACTION: SOL FORCE

Post by Erinys » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:42 pm

Azrael Ultima wrote:Given their limitations, i'd say any unwilling engrams would be pretty much useless. Not only would they still be unwilling after the procedure, you can't even convince them otherwise anymore.


You're making the rather large assumption that the engram knows it's dead, and is aware that the procedure took place. This is not necessarily the case. Just be careful that they don't figure it out--there could be hell to pay.

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Azrael Ultima
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Re: FACTION: SOL FORCE

Post by Azrael Ultima » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:55 pm

Well, it certainly forces rather strict limits on where and for what purposes it can be used. Any such engram pretty much can't be a public person, which in itself might already cause suspicion. About the only ones i can think of here would be reclusive scientists.


On the other hand... that pretty much sounds like they have a fixed long term memory, while short and middle term still work. I guess you could give them a few HDDs, but that probably wouldn't be much different from them just writing a journal. They have the words, but not the emotions and all the other stuff that goes along with "real" memories.
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Ludovsky
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Re: FACTION: SOL FORCE

Post by Ludovsky » Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:03 pm

Are there engrams which may be aware of this flaws of theirs?

... for some reason I can't help but suddenly imagine one who does, and then decide to take a page from "50 First Date"... I blame my silly imagination.

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Sevain
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Re: FACTION: SOL FORCE

Post by Sevain » Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:17 pm

It sounds like a person would be likely to keep forgetting that they are no longer alive unless they prepared for engramming prior to death, or constantly brood on the issue once they find out after they are dead.

Are there any legal consequences for engramming someone against their will? Since the person is killed by the process I guess it would just fall under murder even if no laws regulated the process itself. I am asking because the whole process is horrifying and I am certain many in the SOTSverse share this opinion.

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Erinys
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Re: FACTION: SOL FORCE

Post by Erinys » Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:30 pm

Sevain wrote:Are there any legal consequences for engramming someone against their will?


Yes, that would be murder. The difference being that your victim would also be a witness for the prosecution, and the primary evidence that the crime had occurred, if the body could not be produced.

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Erinys
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Re: FACTION: SOL FORCE

Post by Erinys » Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:35 pm

Ludovsky wrote:Are there engrams which may be aware of this flaws of theirs?

... for some reason I can't help but suddenly imagine one who does, and then decide to take a page from "50 First Date"... I blame my silly imagination.


Yes, they can become aware. And obviously if they volunteered and were prepared for the process, or if the recording were part of a living will, they would be better prepared for the problems, and compensate for them--sometimes rather cleverly. Witness the film Memento for some notion of how to cope with some of these difficulties.

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Darv57
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Re: FACTION: SOL FORCE

Post by Darv57 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:29 am

Who is the earliest human engram still functioning?
Is their some kind of Decay to the engram process?

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Catfish
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Re: FACTION: SOL FORCE

Post by Catfish » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:51 pm

EDIT: Turns out my original question had already been answered, but I have an even more random one!

Are the various branches of Sol Force Intelligence still identified with colors (Red Section, Blue Section, Black Section etc.) If so, did Trade Section, or the specialists who deal with the Zuul and Morrigi ever have colors associated with them?

cakedaemon
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Re: FACTION: SOL FORCE

Post by cakedaemon » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:49 pm

What was the actual ending to the human civil war scenario in SOTS1?

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DarkCecilo
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Re: FACTION: SOL FORCE

Post by DarkCecilo » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:32 pm

I believe they rejoined Solforce when the Zuul entered the picture and the Zuul wars started.

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Night Warden
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Re: FACTION: SOL FORCE

Post by Night Warden » Mon May 20, 2013 4:42 pm

Ok, first post (it's about time I got around to posting after all this time). Ms Erinys (or Ms. Dembo, I've seen both used in the forum but I'm not sure what your preferred mode of address is so please delete as appropriate!). Can I first take the opportunity to congratulate you, Mecron, castewarkp and the rest of the SOTS team (whose names are omitted purely for brevity, not out of any failure to acknowledge their work!) for creating a game with such detailed backstory, I'll confess when I got A Deacon's Tale as part of the original SOTS collectors edition I wasn't particularly excited, not having been familiar with Kerberos and your work before hand, I expected what I tend to think of as a "dross novel" or a "filler novel" (those of you who've read say Warhammer 40k fiction, and not the Ciaphas Cain/Gaunts Ghosts novels which are actually readable I mean the... not so good ones... will know what I mean). I believe an apology is owed for that since the SOTS writing is easily some of the best I've seen in any video game. I believe it was mentioned somewhere that a new novel is in the works... I have to say I'm excited, here's hoping we see Cai Rui again (I'd be very interested to see him dealing with some of the other Black List threats, plus of course the Via Damasco incident as in the picture over in the Loa thread).

Ok ok... Fanboy gushing part over, I'll get to the point:

I've been bouncing around the lore forums a bit and I have been a bit swamped by the level of detail (admittedly in part because I've been fitting it in between revision sessions for uni [totally not *instead* of revision sessions, of course not! :angel:]). A couple of things got me wondering about Sol Force, some of these might not be answerable or might be era dependent or amy even have been answered elsewhere but I've done my best to check.

I believe you mentioned earlier that Sol Force governance has varied by era. Is there a standard colonial government that they implement on new worlds? or is it more like the Third Imperium Traveller setting where so long as a planet keeps to the imperial law and turns up with the tax money regularly they are free to govern themselves as they wish (i.e. one world might be a representational democracy, another a dictatorship, another governed by a hereditary nobility)?

Secondly being something of a cyberpunk/shadowrun fan I was wondering if Interplanetary megacorporations had developed (It seems a natural extension of today's multinationals, especially for some areas like mining corporations, and well the possibilities once the "Arcologies" tech shows up for a large enough corporation are... quite scary actually... but society has been significantly revamped inbetween now and the SOTS era so I wouldn't like to assume), and if so how much sway they hold in terms of planetary and interplanetary governance, and also for the man on the street as it were?

What has happened to "non-infected" AIs in the post Via Damasco era? have they all been killed/disassembled/other appropriate term? I don't know if exposure to the Loa is capable of trigerring a Damascene conversion (whether accidentally or by deliberate act of the Loa) but the cybernetics tree indicate that humanity is still in the "recoiling from the flame" phase of recovery from this.

Finally and this ties in somewhat with my first question: you mentioned that the Consortia control access to energy and information more tightly than modern governments, how much freedom does the average Sol Force citizen have? Since you mentioned earlier in this thread that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights survives, are Sol Force citizens still entitled to the rights outlined therein? I believe A Deacon's Tale establishes that slavery is held to be abhorrent, but what about the other rights? Education, privacy, jury trial and so on?

Also a couple of other questions which relate to slightly more out of universe points, since it seems that the depth of backstory extends as far as the player avatars, is there a list anywhere as to who all the different avatars are? A few I either recognise or have been identified (Cai Rui, Mackenzie) but others I haven't seen an ID for, especially for the non-human species.

My second question is mostly as a point of curiosity so you may not wish to answer this one: what's it like dealing with the Lore forum questions? I've never managed to create a fictional universe of my own, though I've tried once or twice and even as a tabletop GM who tends to introduce new games to groups I don't field nearly as many questions and it can still get a bit overwhelming at times. Do you ever have the urge to beat our collective heads against the wall yelling "It's just a game!" or is it even (dare I say it) helpful on occasion at getting alternate perspectives on the universe?

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