FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

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DarkCecilo
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by DarkCecilo » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:50 pm

I feel bad for anyone who is chosen to spy on the Horde Zuul. If you get caught.. ugh.. don't even want to imagine what happens.

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Sevain
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Sevain » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:53 pm

The inquisitor places you in a comfy chair? :)

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DarkCecilo
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by DarkCecilo » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:44 pm

I don't think the Horde Zuul are much for any kind of pleasantries. I doubt they would even give you a chair for what they are about to do with you.

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wingren013
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by wingren013 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:22 am

Will the Prester Zuul take up the mantle of the Liiran civilization when they finally commit mass suicide?
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Darv57
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Darv57 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:03 am

wingren013 said
Will the Prester Zuul take up the mantle of the Liiran civilization when they finally commit mass suicide?


I'm not sure that the Liir would still choose mass suicide now.
Even if the Suul'ka and their work was completely undone. So much has changed for the Liir.

Perhaps the Black would and some of the older Liir who are tired of conflict. But the black swimmers have sin-eaters now, to help the heal.

I think the Liir would probably decide that it is not necessary to jump into extinction, with the empire being their to prevent the rise of any new suul'ka.
Also...

...Their are many more evil things in the black. Things that must be stopped.

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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Glitch(TMG) » Fri May 17, 2013 8:29 pm

I made this post in the SotS Prime Liir thread, but at the recommendation of someone else, reproducing it over here to perhaps be better noticed (Would have posted in the Race: Liir thread, but that topic is locked).

I've been working on a piece of Liir-centric fanfiction (psychicspacedolphinwhale-fan forever!) after finally acquiring and reading The Deacon's Tale, and while I thought myself familiar with lore and anatomy of Liir, there's one piece of info that has been eluding me, is not in any wiki or official lore compilation that I know of, and sitesearching this forum for keywords is not bearing any fruit.

My question(s) are, do Liir have a blowhole, and if not, do they breath through their mouths or some other part of their anatomy? And also, how long can they hold their breath? As for the first question, I did not want to actually assume that the Liir have a blowhole, because though they resemble Earth cetaceans, it is nothing more than a resmblance given that they are aliens and evolved on another world. The Hivers only look insectoid and their internals and respiratory system are nothing like insects, and the Tarka look reptillian but internally are closer to mammals, so I'm thinking it may not be likely the Liir have a blowhole (or if they do, it may not be located in the same place). And as for how long they can hold their breath, I also did some cursory research on Earth cetaceans just to see what the "earth baseline" was that I'd be comparing against (Most dophins and whales, interestingly enough, can only hold their breath for 15-30 minutes. I was surprised, I thought it was hours). Given that I was already wrong on earth creatures, making such an assumption about aliens is just a plain bad idea. |D (naturally, this is assuming the Liir does not try any clever tricks, like TK-ing an airbubble and pulling it down with them and breathing out of that or something)

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Erinys
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Erinys » Sun May 19, 2013 4:05 am

*chuckles* Yes. Liir have a blow hole. :) And without any technological assistance or cheating, they can hold their breath for around 30 minutes.

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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Glitch(TMG) » Sun May 19, 2013 6:25 pm

Ah! Thank you so much! That will be good to keep in mind while I'm writing...

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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by ScoSteSal118 » Tue May 28, 2013 4:59 pm

Huh, I was just reading through the old SotS I wiki's lore, and I found this:
"
Each race has a different method for sending FTL communiqués based on their drive tech. The Liir have designed semi-intelligent beacon pods which can accelerate at many times the speed of any normal vessel. Once given directions, these tiny "fish" swarm in flickering schools through the universe, seeking the Liir to whom they can deliver their data. Like carrier pigeons, they can be bred and trained to respond to/obey one specific person, and they have the rudimentary empathy and intelligence of a pet monkey.
"

First off, is this correct/canon? Second, are these carriers of information mechanical, biological, or cybernetic? If mechanical, are those little primitive AI's or expert systems? If biological, do the little guys do something similar to the Suul'ka but at a smaller scale? If cybernetic, are they little armored organisms attached to miniature specialized versions of the standard liirian FTL drive? Was their design in any way inspired by the activities/suit designs of the Suul'ka?


Another question, this time on the Liirian worldview: how much flexibility does Liirian society allow in the more fundamental aspects of their worldview? For instance, would a liirian elder who adopted the following beliefs be considered "Suul'ka" and 'corrected' or tolerated as a very odd duck:
-rejection of the standard view of the entire universe as sacred (both living and non-living, sentient and non-sentient, sapient and non-sapient)
-attribution of respect/value/veneration to consciousness- seeing sapient life as more important than sentient life, sentient life as more important than non-sentient life, non-sentient life as more important than non-life
-comparable to the Zuul veneration of the conscious will but with that modified by a moral structure of respect for other sapience/sentience rather than the "might makes right"/will to power ethos of the Zuul.
-essentially an individualist or perhaps libertarian liir, in human terms.
? Also, is that worldview straightup objectively wrong in this universe, and if so do I remember correctly that liir are naturally aware of that reality and so would never honestly convert to this sort of worldview?

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Erinys
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Erinys » Fri May 31, 2013 2:40 am

ScoSteSal118 wrote:First off, is this correct/canon?


Yes.

Second, are these carriers of information mechanical, biological, or cybernetic?


All of the above.

Another question, this time on the Liirian worldview: how much flexibility does Liirian society allow in the more fundamental aspects of their worldview? For instance, would a liirian elder who adopted the following beliefs be considered "Suul'ka" and 'corrected' or tolerated as a very odd duck:


If you think that a Liirian elder can be "corrected", you already do not understand how Liirian psionics work. Every Liir world is effectively a gerontocracy.

-*insert long list of Suul'ka views and opinions*


"Yep. That would be pretty Suul'ka all right. Too bad he's the Elder, and we can't do anything to stop him."

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ScoSteSal118
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by ScoSteSal118 » Fri May 31, 2013 2:58 am

I was under the impression that any elder smaller than the Great Elder, the Voice of the world, was still subject to censure/correction by his peers or, failing that, by the Great Elder. I got this impression from something you wrote in the Insanity thread: "They can[ become suul'ka], but only once they are the most powerful being on the planet. Prior to that point, insanity is a great way to find yourself taking a nap that you never wake up from."

Aw, so I wouldn't find too many like-minded people among the Liir, to put it mildly. :cry:

On the note of certain kinds of individualists/libertarians counting as Suul'ka in the Liirian mind, is it possible that any Great Elders in the past developed that particular kind of mindset (respect for sapience/sentience/life/non-life in that order but still respecting entities outside itself, essentially a fundamentally-different worldview from the Liir that avoided the soul-crushing egotism typical of the Suul'ka), built a suit much more slowly than other Suul'ka did so as to do it without any coercion/with minimal damage to the other Liir/life on the planet generally, and then left to go explore and interact positively with other living things (yes, hubris would almost certainly be an issue...)?

Are the information-carriers little organisms that are cybernetically attached to miniature/specialized versions of the liirian drive system or is their mode of travel psionic or is it something else entirely?

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Erinys
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Erinys » Fri May 31, 2013 3:02 am

ScoSteSal118 wrote:Aw, so I wouldn't find too many like-minded people among the Liir, to put it mildly. :cry:


Aliens are aliens.

--is it possible that any Great Elders in the past developed that particular kind of mindset (respect for sapience/sentience/life/non-life in that order but still respecting entities outside itself, essentially a fundamentally-different worldview from the Liir that avoided the soul-crushing egotism typical of the Suul'ka), built a suit much more slowly than other Suul'ka did so as to do it without any coercion/with minimal damage to the other Liir/life on the planet generally, and then left to go explore and interact positively with other living things (yes, hubris would almost certainly be an issue...)?


Um....yes. He's called The Black.

Are the information-carriers little organisms that are cybernetically attached to miniature/specialized versions of the liirian drive system or is their mode of travel psionic or is it something else entirely?


They are flicker-fish. They have rudimentary psionic ability, but that is mostly to find the recipient of their messages, and to convey their messages.

--Arinn
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ScoSteSal118
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by ScoSteSal118 » Fri May 31, 2013 4:01 am

Yeah, sorry for having unrealistic hopes. Thank you for your commitment to creativity and realism insofar as is reasonable!

Wait, are you saying that the Black fits that whole description (including the whole "fundamentally different philosophical outlook" bit) or that he fits most of it?

ooh, the flicker-fish, they sound so cute! Is it possible that they might be featured in a lore book illustration or piece of fiction or something sometime in the future?

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Erinys
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Erinys » Fri May 31, 2013 11:39 pm

No Liir will forget or deny the sacredness of the universe, or the fact that it is alive. In much the same way that humans are unlikely to forget or deny that water is wet, or that grass is often green, or any other physical reality which is easily collected by their physical senses.

--Arinn
Support my independent fiction campaign on Patreon.
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ScoSteSal118
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by ScoSteSal118 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:10 am

[EDIT] was being jerky/snide, nevermind [/EDIT]

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