Energy Weapon Technology

Research and Development in SotS2.
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Itharus
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Re: Energy Weapon Technology

Post by Itharus » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:49 pm

mistervec wrote:I've got a question that has, perhaps, been answered elsewhere:

What's the deal with the odd, slower-than-light pulsed "lasers" in SotS Prime? Are they actually supposed to be lasers, or is this one of those "package of cohesive laser energy" things like they used in Wing Commander to explain why your "laser" was depicted as a blue ball?

Also: from a game play standpoint they work just fine, so I'm not asking that anything be changed to appeal to my sense of order. I'm also curious as to why they are called "lasers" instead of "blasters" or "pulse guns" or something.


This always bugged me too... why not just use a bunch of very short duration beamer effects? The photon torpedoes already seem to be the Wing Commander type explanation, so wtf :P
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usermist2
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Re: Energy Weapon Technology

Post by usermist2 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:27 am

mistervec wrote:I've got a question that has, perhaps, been answered elsewhere:

What's the deal with the odd, slower-than-light pulsed "lasers" in SotS Prime? Are they actually supposed to be lasers, or is this one of those "package of cohesive laser energy" things like they used in Wing Commander to explain why your "laser" was depicted as a blue ball?

Also: from a game play standpoint they work just fine, so I'm not asking that anything be changed to appeal to my sense of order. I'm also curious as to why they are called "lasers" instead of "blasters" or "pulse guns" or something.


What makes you think that the lasers move slower than light? Also: they are pulsed so you can fire more rapidly/the laser doesn't overheat and fry things in your ship, etc. Beamers have a longer recharge time, in case you didn't notice. Also, these are SMALL mounts, so the amount of power they can hande is limited.
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Itharus
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Re: Energy Weapon Technology

Post by Itharus » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:40 am

Because the speed of light is about 300,000 kilometers per second.

I'm not exactly sure what the firing ranges are in SOTS2 but I'm pretty dang sure that it's short enough so that weapons fire traveling at the speed of light would have pretty much zero noticeable lag time between firing and hitting the target.
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MrScribbler
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Re: Energy Weapon Technology

Post by MrScribbler » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:50 pm

Actually, a simple thought-experiment will work it out for you.

C is the maximum anything can go in normal space. The fastest weapons (beam) are seemingly instantaneous, and therefore represent c. Therefore, anything that is not seemingly instantaneous is not moving at c.

If I remember right, the Homeworld (or Homeworld 2) data files actually used the speed of light for the ion beams. Always thought that was a neat little touch.

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Mecron
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Re: Energy Weapon Technology

Post by Mecron » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:01 pm

yeah...worked with those beams a lot...no C rating in the weapon file...just an instant drawn beam....cause you know...a light second is a long way on your average rts map :lol:

And ith...how about demanding the real realism and ask why you can see lasers at all. Or better yet...you go design a game where the combat sphere is a mere lightsecond....and then when you are done beating yourself with a stick, come back and we will talk. ;)

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Itharus
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Re: Energy Weapon Technology

Post by Itharus » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:18 pm

Mecron wrote:And ith...how about demanding the real realism and ask why you can see lasers at all. Or better yet...you go design a game where the combat sphere is a mere lightsecond....and then when you are done beating yourself with a stick, come back and we will talk. ;)


I purposefully didn't mention the being able to see them at all bit (someone else did a ways back though)! The explanation bit was because Usermist2 asked why we thought the laser effects were moving slower than the speed of light. As for the rest, I'm just curious as to why you made the little lasers behave like bullets instead of beams (like their big brothers).
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Mecron
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Re: Energy Weapon Technology

Post by Mecron » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:32 am

because pulse lasers are very effective and are often easier to develop than sustained beams. And if you have to ask why the pulse is a visible traveling pulse...then you will have your conversational card revoked until the time where you can prove your common sense is up to the task :P

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Re: Energy Weapon Technology

Post by MrScribbler » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:41 am

Mecron wrote:yeah...worked with those beams a lot...no C rating in the weapon file...just an instant drawn beam....cause you know...a light second is a long way on your average rts map :lol:


I guess you would know. For the life of me I was certain it actually had a bullet speed of 3000000. Maybe it's the X3 games I'm confusing things with?

Mecron wrote:because pulse lasers are very effective and are often easier to develop than sustained beams. And if you have to ask why the pulse is a visible traveling pulse...then you will have your conversational card revoked until the time where you can prove your common sense is up to the task :P


Speaking of which, aren't the big brother "sustained" beams actually pulsing, just with longer-timed pulses? I wonder how it would look if the big beams were continuous and the pulsed lasers were actual pulsed beams.

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Itharus
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Re: Energy Weapon Technology

Post by Itharus » Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:04 pm

Eh, my common sense is fine Mecron. I guess I'm just underestimating the ranges involved in combat, overestimating the the duration of the pulse, underestimating the energy put into the pulse, or some combination thereof.
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Mecron
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Re: Energy Weapon Technology

Post by Mecron » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:00 pm

you are overestimating the patience of people to shoot at dots 300,000 K away...and hence thats a common sense issue.

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Re: Energy Weapon Technology

Post by Agent.nihilist » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:01 am

There is also the whole scaled to fit side to consider. Earth is 8 Light minutes away from Sol IRL... so I'd actually make the argument that the beams are moving FASTER than light :P
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Itharus
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Re: Energy Weapon Technology

Post by Itharus » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:29 am

300,000 km? If that's the range these combats are supposed to be taking place at, then yeah, I'm definitely underestimating the ranges involved in combat. I thought they were quite a bit closer than that :)
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Nspace
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Re: Energy Weapon Technology

Post by Nspace » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:43 am

1 light second = 299,792.458 kilometers

The ranges in SotS 2 are much smaller than 300,000 km. I think that tactical distances are in meters, with CR's at about 90 m, DN's at about 270 m, LV's at about 810 m, default sensor range at 7,000 m and missile range at 10,000 m. :) So the point is if you put a 90 m CR on a 300,000,000 m diameter battlefield (that's > 7x10^16 m in combat area) and allowed laser weapons to have "realistic" ranges, you would end up with a tiny little dot firing at another tiny little dot. Sounds boring and unfun to me. !blah
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Itharus
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Re: Energy Weapon Technology

Post by Itharus » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:14 pm

Oh gawd, I feel like I'm chasing my tail in circles :googly:

I was never arguing for a huge battlefield, I was just wondering why the lasers were a little bolt instead of a beam at the combat ranges you just mentioned.

Turns out I was just grossly overestimating the duration of the pulse... I was thinking in milli and should have been thinking in nano or pico apparently - my mistake :oops: .
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RobAK801
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Re: Energy Weapon Technology

Post by RobAK801 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:27 pm

Short answer: Game play functionality and player expectations
Longer answer:
1- because if it wasn't people would have difficulty telling the difference between pulse and beam variety lasers.
2- because popular sci-fi has always shown laser "bullets" for pulse type lasers, so people are familiar with/expect it for those weapons.
3- because enjoyable game play trumps reality.
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