Its Here! Sots 2 Tech Tree Java App!

Research and Development in SotS2.
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medic
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Re: Its Here! Sots 2 Tech Tree Java App!

Post by medic » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:06 am

Wow, thank you Arkalius! This helps very much.
The only thing i wish is adding numbers into some descriptions - how much (in %) Heavy platforms or Expert systems increase IO, etc.

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Nspace
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Re: Its Here! Sots 2 Tech Tree Java App!

Post by Nspace » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:34 pm

Most of that data wasn't available until very recently. It was only the last patch or two that made it available in the files.
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Arkalius
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Re: Its Here! Sots 2 Tech Tree Java App!

Post by Arkalius » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:15 am

I've updated the app to support the new Loa race. You can use the download link in the original post or just download from this link.
-Arkalius

Check out my SotS2 tech tree java app!
For the SotS prime player, grab the original tech tree java app.

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LaDoncella
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Re: Its Here! Sots 2 Tech Tree Java App!

Post by LaDoncella » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:41 pm

:thumbsup:
Image

Gigan
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Re: Its Here! Sots 2 Tech Tree Java App!

Post by Gigan » Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:22 pm

Hi Arkalius
thank you very much much for this great app
I have noticed that some techs, which originate only from one link, have higher propabilities than the the link they originate from, which would be impossible unless the root of that link had a propability over 100%. An example herefore is the Morrigi Mk3 Shield Tech which has a propability of 95% although the link it comes from only has a propability of 90%.
I'm reffering to Version 1.3.1.

I would calculate a tech prob. like this:

for i:=1 to numberoflinks do
begin
tech.prob:=tech.prob+(1-tech.prob)*link[i].root.prob*link[i].prob;
end;

Hope this can be of some Help
Thank you very much for all your hard work

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Galwail
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Re: Its Here! Sots 2 Tech Tree Java App!

Post by Galwail » Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:22 pm

Gigan wrote:Hi Arkalius
thank you very much much for this great app
I have noticed that some techs, which originate only from one link, have higher propabilities than the the link they originate from, which would be impossible unless the root of that link had a propability over 100%. An example herefore is the Morrigi Mk3 Shield Tech which has a propability of 95% although the link it comes from only has a propability of 90%.
I'm reffering to Version 1.3.1.

I would calculate a tech prob. like this:

for i:=1 to numberoflinks do
begin
tech.prob:=tech.prob+(1-tech.prob)*link[i].root.prob*link[i].prob;
end;

Hope this can be of some Help
Thank you very much for all your hard work


It indeed seems strange. I can only get shields III from shields II, so the overall probability should be lower or equal to the link probability.

EDIT: But it is not that simple to calculate total probability, because not all root probabilities are always independent.

Imagine this situation:

Code: Select all

  (Tech 3) ...  tech we want to calculate, total probability to get is P
     |\                                               
     | \  L23 ... link from Tech 2 to tech 3 with probability L23
     |  \                                             
L13  |(Tech 2) ... Tech 2 with total probability to get P2
|--> |  /                                             
|    | /  L12 ... link from Tech 1 to Tech 2 with probability L12
|    |/                                               
|  (Tech 1) ... Tech 1 with total probability to get P1
|
link from Tech 1 to Tech 3 with probability L13


Your formula would give you the following total probability to get Tech 3:
P = P1*L13 + (1 - P1*L13)*P2*L23 = P1*L13 + P2*L23 - P1*L13*P2*L23

There are two ways to get correct total probability, direct way and indirect way. The direct way is to add probabilities for all possible combinations of links to get Tech 3, that is:

  • We get all links. Probability ... P1*L12*L23*L13
  • We don't get link 13, but get both links 12 and 23. Probability ... P1*L12*L23(1 - L13)
  • We don't get link 12, but get link 13. Probability ... P1*(1-L12)*L13
  • We don't get link 23, but get both link 12 and 13. Probability ... P1*L12*(1-L23)*L13

Total probability is sum of these sub-results:
P = P*L12*L23*L13 + P1*L12*L23 - P1*L12*L23*L13 + P1*L13 - P1*L12*L13 + P1*L12*L13 - P1*L12*L23*L13
P = P1*L13 + P1*L12*L23 - P1*L12*L23*L13

Now because P2 = P1*L12 the final result is:
P = P1*L13 + P2*L23 - P2*L23*L13

The indirect way is to calculate probability of not getting Tech 3 by correctly multiplying independent probabilities and add probabilities for different results of the same random variable. That is:

  1. We don't get Tech 1. Probability P_A = (1 - P1)
  2. OR we get tech 1. Probability P_B = P1 AND
    1. We don't get Link 13. Probability P_B1 = (1 - L13)
    2. AND we either don't get link L12 OR get link 12 but don't get link L23. Probability P_B2 = (1 - L12) + L12*(1 - L23) = 1 - L12*L23

Total probability of not getting Tech 3 is then:
(1 - P) = P_A + P_B*(P_B1*P_B2)
(1 - P) = 1 - P1 + P1*((1 - L13)*(1 - L12*L23))
(1 - P) = 1 - P1 + P1(1 - L13 - L12*L23 + L13*L12*L23)
(1 - P) = 1 - P1*L13 - P1*L12*L23 + P1*L12*L23*L13
(1 - P) = 1 - P1*L13 - P2*L23 + P2*L23*L13
P = P1*L13 + P2*L23 - P2*L23*L13

Both ways give the same result 8)

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Arkalius
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Re: Its Here! Sots 2 Tech Tree Java App!

Post by Arkalius » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:18 am

Gigan wrote:Hi Arkalius
thank you very much much for this great app

You're welcome :)

I have noticed that some techs, which originate only from one link, have higher propabilities than the the link they originate from, which would be impossible unless the root of that link had a propability over 100%. An example herefore is the Morrigi Mk3 Shield Tech which has a propability of 95% although the link it comes from only has a propability of 90%.

Hmm... That is odd. The probability calculation code is highly complex, so it's conceivable there's a bug in there somewhere. You are correct that a tech that comes from only a single link should not have an overall probability that exceeds its link probability. I will investigate.
-Arkalius

Check out my SotS2 tech tree java app!
For the SotS prime player, grab the original tech tree java app.

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shadow wolf
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Re: Its Here! Sots 2 Tech Tree Java App!

Post by shadow wolf » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:45 pm

Can upload the finished wood? In PNG, or JPG

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shadow wolf
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Re: Its Here! Sots 2 Tech Tree Java App!

Post by shadow wolf » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:54 pm

I mean - put them in this forum. Whereby do people insist on the application itself? That is not all use the java program. I just want to see the final image. I'm tired after work and do not want to torture the brain with the installation of Java. Moreover, I have long created a theme with the search data for these trees - no one told me about this topic (I myself began to look from where came these figures). I do not understand why so little information about the finished drawings (very few players in the world up on the forum. Few people go to the section mod. And see these trees because people want)

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=37743

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rytram
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Re: Its Here! Sots 2 Tech Tree Java App!

Post by rytram » Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:35 am

That thing's ugly. Do I need to break out the Photoshop and make another tech chart for y'all?
Yeah, I'm still here. Still lurking. Waiting for SOTS2 to come out of Beta so I can start playing it. Looks like it'll be pretty cool when it's ready.




YESSSSS plz, you have no clue how useful it was to have an easy simple techtree pic on my desktop. though id recommend some combination of pdf and photoshop or something. in any case an interactive map that has all the details when mousing over or clicking the tech. and i agree with you. when i was lookin up a sots 2 techtree i was expectin to see another one like what you have done, instead i got this shit. no offence to op and creator but i dont need to view it in a file breakdown, just make it simple and pretty like stonefish here lol.
Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war!

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Galwail
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Re: Its Here! Sots 2 Tech Tree Java App!

Post by Galwail » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:52 am

rytram wrote:when i was lookin up a sots 2 techtree i was expectin to see another one like what you have done, instead i got this shit.


No need to be rude about it. Someone has to calculate those overall probabilities, before you can draw a pretty chart of technologies.

Chromius
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Re: Its Here! Sots 2 Tech Tree Java App!

Post by Chromius » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:07 pm

Thank you. It was extremely helpful.

I have not gone so far into the tech till now and had no clue on the current techs and what they lead to.

ZedF
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Re: Its Here! Sots 2 Tech Tree Java App!

Post by ZedF » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:17 am

Recently my Java updated to jre7 update 15 and this no longer appears to work. I have made sure it's associated with the java exe in my jre7 directory in Program Files, but all it does when launched is open a cmd window which immediately closes again. Anyone else having similar problems?
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kdonovan
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Re: Its Here! Sots 2 Tech Tree Java App!

Post by kdonovan » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:41 am

Didn't the recent java update have a warning that it might break some earlier java apps. I vaguely recall it it commended you reinstall a version 6 java too - or something. It seemed too much like hard work (and I'm too clueless) so I didn't upgrade.

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BlueTemplar
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Re: Its Here! Sots 2 Tech Tree Java App!

Post by BlueTemplar » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:52 pm

I downloaded the latest JRE a few days ago and it works fine with this app.

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