PD or AOE flak?

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adamshattuck1985
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PD or AOE flak?

Post by adamshattuck1985 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:16 am

just kinda wondering why in lore/story all races use CIWS style P.D. or instead of "Flak" or type for ship defense?
if this question needs to be moved to lore fine but i think its more of a weapon question.
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Tarrak
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Re: PD or AOE flak?

Post by Tarrak » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:50 am

We don't even use flak much anymore in the real world. Flak is used due to inaccuracy. The train of thoughts are: "We have to hit those flying targets; our guns can't hit them them reliably; we'll use shrapnell styled ammunition so even missed might damage the targets." I would not consider the PD weapons to be inaccurate.
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Re: PD or AOE flak?

Post by Azrael Ultima » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:20 am

FlaK are not point defense. They were never meant to be, either. Look at the anti-BR weapons if you want FlaK.

Also, FlaK refers to any gun that is primarily designed to shoot down aircraft as opposed to self guiding ordnance.
Since there are no aircraft in SotS, there is no reason to have FlaK.
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Tarrak
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Re: PD or AOE flak?

Post by Tarrak » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:45 pm

Flak has two meanings in English. The common, if technically incorrect version, that of exploding groundcannon fired anti air ordinance; and the more correct but ultimately not terribly common usage of anti air gun (from FlugabwehrKanone). It is one of those things that got a life of it's own, to the point that there are weapons called Flak cannons, which is a bit of a redundancy.

I guess it is sort of like 'decimate', which is now more commonly used to describe heavy to near total losses, rather than the more correct 10% (and even more correct, it would have to be selfinflicted).
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DaNuker
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Re: PD or AOE flak?

Post by DaNuker » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:46 pm

Aren't Bursters originally supposed to be Anti-DE "flak" back in SotS1? (I haven't tried the SotS2 version yet).

I'm guessing they aren't really too good at really.

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Tarrak
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Re: PD or AOE flak?

Post by Tarrak » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:17 pm

Actually Bursters are good anti-BR weapons, as long as the BRs stay close together. Currently PD lasers and Phalanx are better, but Bursters and Mass Shotguns are considerably more fun.
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Re: PD or AOE flak?

Post by Azrael Ultima » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:33 pm

Tarrak wrote:Flak has two meanings in English. The common, if technically incorrect version, that of exploding groundcannon fired anti air ordinance; and the more correct but ultimately not terribly common usage of anti air gun (from FlugabwehrKanone). It is one of those things that got a life of it's own, to the point that there are weapons called Flak cannons, which is a bit of a redundancy.

I guess it is sort of like 'decimate', which is now more commonly used to describe heavy to near total losses, rather than the more correct 10% (and even more correct, it would have to be selfinflicted).

Still, even the common version would be largely pointless as PD. That would be trying to shoot down missiles with bursters. Certainly funny to look at, but probably not terribly effective.

Obscure spelling fact: It's ordnance, not ordinance, though the latter can also be used as a weapon of sorts.
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Tarrak
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Re: PD or AOE flak?

Post by Tarrak » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:03 pm

Heh... it is one of those words. I always had trouble with a number of english words, no matter how much I used them. Like 'business', it got so bad that I intentionally avoided that one for years to not look like an idiot.

But yes, bursting ammo wouldn't be terribly great for anti-missile duty. And for the classical flak effect, Bursters are plenty fine.
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Mecron
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Re: PD or AOE flak?

Post by Mecron » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:39 pm

flak in a video game can only function properly as an AE effect...you fill your game level with 200 small AE zones to check per frame...watch what happens to that framerate.

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Re: PD or AOE flak?

Post by Razaron » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:07 pm

Mecron wrote:flak in a video game can only function properly as an AE effect...you fill your game level with 200 small AE zones to check per frame...watch what happens to that framerate.

No, no, no. You've got it all wrong. What you should do is fire 200 shots within a wide accuracy cone. With every shots motion being simulated. And the deflections. Also, don't forget relativity.

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Mecron
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Re: PD or AOE flak?

Post by Mecron » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:10 pm

lol exactly...you should have seen the intial bursters cranked up to the point where they were realistically creating a cloud of shells that could hit small things. :shock:

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Re: PD or AOE flak?

Post by Azrael Ultima » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:55 am

Mecron wrote:flak in a video game can only function properly as an AE effect...you fill your game level with 200 small AE zones to check per frame...watch what happens to that framerate.

What? You don't like slide shows? We could even add some pictures from last summers vacation for psychic warfare!
Scare those missiles into turning around and heading back home!

On second thought, replacing the universe with holiday pictures probably isn't that good an idea.
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DaNuker
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Re: PD or AOE flak?

Post by DaNuker » Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:41 pm

Mecron wrote:lol exactly...you should have seen the intial bursters cranked up to the point where they were realistically creating a cloud of shells that could hit small things. :shock:


That would have been awesome as a physics demo... although not in a proper game.

And I'm guessing slow constant AOE blasts would have been either overpowering or would be too slow to really smack down all the incoming smaller warheads.

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adamshattuck1985
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Re: PD or AOE flak?

Post by adamshattuck1985 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:37 pm

I guess me being an michigander redneck kinda screwed my question maybe? in the parts where i live (central michigan) "flak" is used to describe things from shotgun blasts (buck or bird shot) to real machine gun AA to MIRV style weapons. so when i say "flak" i am talking about more dakka or a burst effect, i guess what i was talking about was like "exploding small AoE" for light BR damage/missiles.
p.s. even to this day when me or my brothers watch the youtube video of the joint stand off weapon (JSOW) we still call it a shotgun blast/ flak hit.
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Mecron
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Re: PD or AOE flak?

Post by Mecron » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:35 pm

I tend to think of flak as the burst of submunitions like a shotgun blast or traditional flak shell. I consider PD to be things like Phalanx batteries and stuff that may fire a lot of rounds but they are being fired in a narrow, linear fashion ;)

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