So how do you use torpedo ships?

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Mishka_shaw
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So how do you use torpedo ships?

Post by Mishka_shaw » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:22 pm

Hi all

Just wondering, how do you utilize your torpedo frigates to ensure their best operation?
Currently I'm running Torps with shield IV command section (or take the assault section if shield was unreachable) than fit in any kind of enveloping torp I can research.
It works quite well but they tend to not fire when in range which is likely down to my incompetence more than anything.

How do you lot work them, has anyone had much success with detonating torps? I tried them once with a huge alpha strike on an attacking fleet which worked stunningly well.

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: So how do you use torpedo ships?

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:28 am

Not tried detonating torps personally, as by that point my BRs would get hammered by the explosions.

As for designs, typically the following:

Command-
Disruptor\Deflector depending on enemy weapons.
Assault Bridge if foe is using a mixed weapon loadout (which is smart by the way.), with a disruptor torpedo armed.
Cloaking, however in 95% of matches this is a tech I never get as it is countered very easy and to make it combat worthy, needs improved cloaking as well.

Mission-
Torpedo for those that have it.
Barrage otherwise.

For long range tracking torps my loadout is usually disruptor\deflector and torpedo, with all light mounts as PD, Medium mounts as either missiles or Medium Emitters if available and Heavy mounts (if any) as more missiles.
Prefer to field enveloping if available, but unless research time allows it the basic fusion\AM torp does good enough.

If playing a faction which has good Direct fire torpedo chances such as Solforce, I make a closer range design. This one is the same as above but typically has an assault bridge.
The frontal torp has a disruptor torp with the rest as either Mesonic or Kelvinic, depending on what torps I have. Due to the closer range nature, the other weapons are Variable weapons if available or PD for light, whatever my strongest close combat medium mount is and a close range heavy mount, unless the mount is rear facing in which case it gets a missile or some other weapon which fires no matter the arc such as Tempest Array.

Both have their uses and can work very well together. The long range one eats cruisers alive but falters against DNs and LVs and a lot of PD, but can stand up to BRs and other long range weapons due to their heavy PD.
The direct fire one trashes DNs and is a serious threat to LVs, but is vulnerable to BRs and massed long range fire, but when combined these two ships can handle nearly any enemy fleet.

The Torpedo BR\Nodefighter I find works best if given a long range torpedo such as Burst AM torpedo. They fire, then retreat. Once reloaded, they come back for another pass.

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Is an example of what a full Morrigi LV carrier fleet can do with Torpedo BRs.
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Galwail
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Re: So how do you use torpedo ships?

Post by Galwail » Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:39 pm

Shiny!! :insane: :insane:

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Goomich
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So how do you use torpedo ships?

Post by Goomich » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:13 pm

Enveling torps, even fusion, set to spread, two salvos, clear survivors.

Mishka_shaw
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Re: So how do you use torpedo ships?

Post by Mishka_shaw » Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:19 pm

Rossinna-Sama wrote:Is an example of what a full Morrigi LV carrier fleet can do with Torpedo BRs.


Whow, I tried liir carrier groups bringing in BR with AM torps but for some reason my BR's decided to fly off to the jump point and sit there.
Will reload them and give them a shot again. The carnage BR's with torps can do looks amazing.

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Hawawaa
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Re: So how do you use torpedo ships?

Post by Hawawaa » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:26 am

Fusion/Antimatter Burst torps is whats being shown here. They are deadly. Even if you have good pd coverage these suckers will get through. (alpha fire) :awesome:

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Re: So how do you use torpedo ships?

Post by Gramalian » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:23 am

Im a huge fan of torps and use them as my factions primary weapon type in most of my games. I usually play sol force so I favor direct fire myself but the longer range ones have a lot going for them.

I usually field the assault/torp cruiser as early as I can and set it as a mid range heavy hitter. Ive rarely been lucky enough to get the disruptor torp types so mostly I just got for a huge starter punch with the 5 tubes armed with the best direct fire, the HCL with the best option I have, and use the mediums for energy cannons for some peppering. The back one is of course a missile and lights are PD, which I try to make it the phalanx one since Im very energy heavy otherwise.

3-4 brawlers, 3-4 toprs, 0-2 drone/barrage based cruisers and then my basic 2 supply and 1 CnC is usually my go to fleet design for when Im unsure of what ill be facing or if they have a mixed weapon/ship load out.

Id rant on about my set up and ship design philosophy but you dont care about that. Mostly I send in brawlers or use them with longer range guns such as energy cannons and have the torp boats hang back a bit with direct fire so they always face forward at the ship and unload at HCL range which is cannon sweet spot range usually too. Then the drones/missile boats and support fire from the supply missiles/CNC missiles rain in from max range.

Its mostly a heavy duty burst damage from the torp ships that punch through and the others tear apart. Always been a fan of the hit super hard in one spot rapid deployment tactic. So in space, I like what hits a single target the hardest and torps do that.

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wingren013
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Re: So how do you use torpedo ships?

Post by wingren013 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:43 am

Very very liberally.

In seriousness though I find their best use is for firesupport and as an alternative to heavy beams when the target is not really staying in one place for long. Torpedoes also seem to pack more punch than equivalent level heavy beams but the scarcity of torpedoe mounts balances this out. Direct fire tration. orps are also excellent anti-emplacement weapons and enveloping torps work wonders against BRs and CRs. The guided torps also seem to do a lot of hazard damage which is nice when raiding the enemy. Torps are also generally more versatile than hbeams and have a wider fire arc. I believe that Hiver and SolForce ships have slightly larger firing arcs for torps. Torps are also very burst damagy so great for alpha strike.

Detonating torps are only worth it for special situations like BR swarms and Zuul CR swarms. They are fairly effective and a bit more damaging to internal structure and planets but have worse armor penetration. I believe that their damage curve rises faster as well making them better short ranged weapons than other guided torps. They take some practice with aiming though.
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chris0101
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Re: So how do you use torpedo ships?

Post by chris0101 » Wed May 01, 2013 2:19 am

It really depends on what type of torpedo you arm the ship with.

Some you'll engage enemies head on, others you will want the ship to keep their distance.
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chris0101
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Re: So how do you use torpedo ships?

Post by chris0101 » Wed May 01, 2013 2:22 am

Rossinna-Sama wrote:Not tried detonating torps personally, as by that point my BRs would get hammered by the explosions.


Imo, the enveloping torepdoes if you get them tend to work better than the detonating ones against small targets. An AM enveloping torpedo is devastating against a cruiser. Against LVs, meson works best.
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GammaPaladin
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Re: So how do you use torpedo ships?

Post by GammaPaladin » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:21 am

I use them almost exclusively on BRs. Most actual capital ships (Cruiser and bigger) don't really have enough torpedo mounts to be worth it. You get far more torpedoes with a carrier loaded with torpedo BRs than you do with that ship class's best torpedo configuration, generally speaking.

An LV Carrier loaded with Torpedo BRs can be luanching 40+ torpedoes per salvo (Depending on faction, Morrigi carrier is 48 BRs, so 48 torpedoes).

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Karu
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Re: So how do you use torpedo ships?

Post by Karu » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

@Gamma: Depending on the game state.

A Liir cruiser can mount 6 torpedos (2 front, 4 mid / morrigi 1/4). 10 Torpedo cruiser would be 60 (50 for morrigi) torpedos. And if they are enveloping fusion then ... run :)

By the time you have DNs your cruiser fleet is also bigger then 11 cruiser ... so you might get more torps out that way then "pure BR".


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GammaPaladin
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Re: So how do you use torpedo ships?

Post by GammaPaladin » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:23 pm

Yes, but in many ways the CRs are easier to kill than the BRs. Because the BRs will only dart into optimum torpedo range, and then withdraw again, and they're going to be faster than any capitals your enemy can field, the only real counter to them is Interceptor or patrol BRs. They're not really vulnerable to return torpedo fire, they've got enough small turret mounts that they're not vulnerable to drones, and can deal with missile spam fairly well...

I'd honestly rather field 11 BR carrier CRs than 11 torpedo CRs. Sure it's 33 torpedoes instead of 50, but it's harder to counter.

And if I force the opponent to switch to Interceptor BR carriers I've weakened his capital ships weaponry to the point that my carriers can stay in range an bring their anti-BR weaponry to bear against his Interceptors...

Though admittedly this works better for the Morrigi than the Liir. They lose less going from Torpedo CRs to BR Carriers, but they're also a lot faster than Liir in tactical combat, so they can kite with the CRs much more effectively. In any scenario where the fleets don't start on top of each other, the Morrigi Torpedo BR Carrier fleet will stomp the Liir Torpedo Cruiser fleet by just launching the BRs and running away though.

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Karu
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Re: So how do you use torpedo ships?

Post by Karu » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:17 pm

Karu wrote:@Gamma: Depending on the game state.


I want to emphasize this.

Liir have the best small mount coverage of all races. And Zero inertia.
The only difference is speed.

Torpedo BR are also antimatter age (normaly turn 100 plus)
The 60 torp fleet of liir can be done (researched and build) turn 30(!) - grabing torps and the C3 tech only.


And if you talk abouth the grave bladed BR - it's not guaranteed, but a likely tech. Also: Liir BR are intertialess too, making them also hard to hit/fast retreating. Not to mention that Liir DN carry the most BR :)
So I don't get your "works better for Morrigi then Liir" thing.


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GammaPaladin
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Re: So how do you use torpedo ships?

Post by GammaPaladin » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:19 pm

What I meant is that Morrigi are better off with Torpedo Riders where Liir may be better of with Torpedo CRs, because the Morrigi have faster ships. Inertialess is all well and good, but top speed matters more when kiting with Riders, because you're not turning around to shoot and then running again, you're just making a straight line away from your opponent the entire time. They can catch you by going to full speed, since you can't keep your riders out at full speed, but it takes time, and their PD will be nearly worthless while they run at that speed, so your BRs will either destroy or heavily damage their fleet before they can catch up.

Liir tactical top speed is so low, this is much harder to accomplish. It's much easier for factions with high tactical speed to catch Liir Carriers that are attempting this tactic, than it is to catch Morrigi Carriers using it.

For other factions it's pretty much no-contest... If you don't have torpedo sections, then Torpedo BRs are just the obvious choice for torpedo saturation.

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