Point defense

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Zweistein
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Point defense

Post by Zweistein » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:28 pm

So far I've seen 4 point defense systems and another 3 that I haven't seen. So which one is best used for what role and which one would you choose.

I count the following as PD systems:

Emitter: While not exactly a PD it's quite strong because it can jump form one missile to another destroying them both (some times t jumps three to four times), can also be used as a weapon, is available early with almost no research (only feasibility study). It's most prominent downside is it's relatively long recharge time. I like this PD the most.

Phalanx PD: PD based on small caliber, rapid firing gauss rifles. Available very early and quite effective, but is uses up your supply. Cannot be used against ships.

Laser PD: PD based on small rapid firing laser. Available quite early, but shorter ranged and less powerful then Phalanx PD. But it's an energy weapon and doesn't eat your Supply.

Phaser PD: PD that uses phased particles instead of Amplified light. Longer ranged then Laser and as strong (if not stronger than) Phalanx, but much greater cost, energy usage and lower ROF. Also available very late (Phasers -> antimatter -> Pulse phasers -> Phaser PD).

Now for those I haven't seen yet:

Variable Laser PD: Apparently this weapon can attack enemies at short range and is a PD weapon at long range, based on Laser PD and UV beamer. Don't know how good it is.

Variable Phaser PD: Same as Variable Laser, but based on phasers. Never used it.

Interceptors: A PD based on Missiles, but will not engage other missiles (Only drones, Battleriders, Mines and torpedoes). Probably the least used PD yet and also unused by me.
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BlueTemplar
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Re: Point defense

Post by BlueTemplar » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:50 pm

It's the medium (and large) emitters that jump multiple times, don't they? Small emitters won't hurt CR armor. Not sure what you mean by no research, 40k RP is not small in the early game.

I'm pretty sure laser PD is longer ranged than phalanx PD.

IIRC Interceptors engage other missiles now.

I've found that green beamers are probably the best starting weapon to use in the PD role.

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Resok
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Re: Point defense

Post by Resok » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:35 pm

Interceptors are possibly the best at shooting down enemy missiles and they have a very large coverage range to support nearby friendly cruisers. They do have some unusual side effects though since they themselves can also be shot down by enemy point defense so their potential effectiveness drops at close range when your enemy has PD.

Light Emitters do jump also which is what makes them so potent besides their 100% accuracy. Enemy forces using the ripple fire pattern can get through light emitter PD though. I've done so personally in MP matches when standard alpha strike mass missile volleys have failed.

I agree that turn one green beamers are some of the best fallback PD weapons as their accuracy enables them to hit missile targets consistently. Their damage output is not the best, but interestingly enough they do more damage to cruisers than Light Emitters do (due to the Blue armor layer).

I think he means by 'no research' - no prerequisite techs needed before starting their research. IE: Phalanx requires VRF and Laser PD requires XRay Lasers (assuming you don't have an increased tech start).

Variable lasers are quite good especially since they have the side effect of being able to be mounted in Medium slots. In a pinch they can do decent damage to Cruisers (XRay Beamers) and double as Laser PD within that same slot.

Variable Phasers are basically like normal Phasers (medium mount) but switch to Phaser PD mode when engaging PD targets nearby (far more damage output to a PD target than normal Phaser). The only downside is a slightly longer recharge time between normal offensive phaser blasts compared to normal phasers. This also expands your PD capabilities to include Medium slots - which can be quite good with some races which have more medium than light mount.
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Azrael Ultima
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Re: Point defense

Post by Azrael Ultima » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:32 am

BlueTemplar wrote:I'm pretty sure laser PD is longer ranged than phalanx PD.

It's the second longest range PD after Interceptors. It's also more effective against missiles than Phalanx in my experience.

Interceptors do the most damage and are extremely accurate, but fire very slowly compared to the rest. Good against small numbers of powerful warheads like AM torpedoes, drones and BRs, ineffective against massed missiles.
Unlike SotS1, they now intercept all types of PD targets.
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Pavane
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Re: Point defense

Post by Pavane » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:09 pm

I love Variable Lasers, but they are very expensive to research and can only be obtained by the long trek up the beamer branch. For example, Rapid-Pulse Laser PD costs 80 research points in total, while Variable Lasers cost more than twice as much at 195 research points. Their dual role is great though and the X-Ray Beamer is useful against no/low armoured targets (stations, satellites, battle riders, etc.), shields, as well as sections on well armoured ships that have had their armour stripped by larger mounts and the light beams can go to work on the structure itself. I've tried using them as my first PD weapon, but it is a long, long, wait. Perhaps it is best to return to them after cheaper PD have been obtained.
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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Point defense

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:06 pm

Emitter - Shouldn't rely on this for PD as it can be defeated by players (Yes, players... not AI) using Ripple firemode on their missiles and torpedoes. They are also expensive. I suppose they make a good stopgap, but if you only research this for PD then don't go into medium and\or heavy emitters then you're wasting time.

Phalanx PD: Call me biased, but I'd rather use snipers for PD than these. They miss so often that they are only useful against drones and BRs. Ehh.

Laser PD: Another one I'm fairly biased on. More effective than many other PD options but it usually isn't one I personally focus on.

Phaser PD: Good against drones and BRs, and that's essentially it. Suffers from the same problem as Beamers - easily defeated by Rippled fire mode.

Beamers: UV and Xray beamers are one of the most cost efficient PD in the game in my opinion as they don't miss and don't use much, if any supply. Only held back by ROF and the fact that they ain't dedicated PD.

Variable Laser PD: All this is, is literally a Xray Beamer when firing at ships and a Laser PD when doing PD duty. If you have it then its acceptable, but in general you shouldn't need it.

Variable Phaser PD: A very common PD solution for late game as medium mounts are more common than light mounts on larger ships such as LVs. Against ships it fires a normal phaser, against PD targets it uses a PD phaser setting.

Interceptors: Best PD in the game, especially when used in large numbers. Can be shot down by other PD and uses a lot of supply, and often isn't on a players research path. However has the longest range and good ROF - best used with Spread and Ripple firemodes.
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Resok
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Re: Point defense

Post by Resok » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:25 pm

I will make the comment that interceptors I don't think are as effective against BR targets armed with their own PD.

They also have some of the lowest raw potential DPS compared to the other PD options. I've tried countering for example, Liir, Hiver, and Tarka BRs with interceptors in the past and lost multiple fleets in the attempt.

Emitter, Phaser, Phalanx, Laser/Var Laser (in that order) in my experience are far superior.
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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Point defense

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:32 pm

Resok wrote:I will make the comment that interceptors I don't think are as effective against BR targets armed with their own PD.

They also have some of the lowest raw potential DPS compared to the other PD options. I've tried countering for example, Liir, Hiver, and Tarka BRs with interceptors in the past and lost multiple fleets in the attempt.

Emitter, Phaser, Phalanx, Laser/Var Laser (in that order) in my experience are far superior.


No PD is perfect, heh. In my sessions Interceptors offer the most bang for their buck against everything but BRs as you said. But by the time BRs are a threat, other weapons are available unless its a BR rush... in which case having Interceptors is an odd choice indeed.

Not sure I've seen BRs armed with PD all that often, but could simply be my opponents preferring to arm them with mass emitters in most cases.
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Resok
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Re: Point defense

Post by Resok » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:38 pm

Yup - there's a lot of complex pro's and con's with each choice. Combine that with specific battle tactics that can limit or mitigate the effectiveness of different PD types and you have a very vague 'grey' sort of answer with PD where most people are looking for a black and white (what's tha best???) sort of answer.

One of the reasons why this game shines above the rest IMHO.
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EnigmaticDoctor
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Re: Point defense

Post by EnigmaticDoctor » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:05 am

Straight from the Wiki

Notes

This information valid for Version 24917.6

Despite what the description says, Interceptor Missiles now engage other missiles.
The general "intent" of the various pd systems is as follows: [1]
Rapid Pulse PD Laser - General usage, light damage, high rate of fire, high accuracy, best vs missiles.
Phalanx PD - General usage, heavier damage, high rate of fire, average accuracy, best vs heavier, slower targets.
PD Phaser - Intensive usage, heavy damage, lower rate of fire, perfect accuracy, best in large numbers vs missiles or drones, easily overwhelmed by heavy tracking ordinance.
Interceptor Missile - Anti heavy ordinance, high damage, mid rate of fire, tracking, best vs heavy missiles and torpedoes, more easily overwhelmed by masses light tracking weapons or spoofing conditions.

Also, don't forget the Wiki;

http://sots2.rorschach.net/SotS2_Codex
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Pavane
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Re: Point defense

Post by Pavane » Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:05 pm

I have recently been using a PD mix on each ship against enemy missile-heavy cruisers to good effect. Rapid pulse PD Lasers and Interceptor Missiles compliment each other. I can confirm that Interceptors target missiles, and that they will acquire a new target if their current one is destroyed. This makes up a lot for the lower rate of fire.
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ScoSteSal118
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Re: Point defense

Post by ScoSteSal118 » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:22 pm

Are you sure that they acquire a new target when their original target is destroyed? I've played a bit several times (including on the latest patch) and it looked to me like large bunches of interceptor missiles all pointed at the same missile/target would explode in mid-vacuum when the missile/target they'd been pointing at was destroyed.

Enjelus
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Re: Point defense

Post by Enjelus » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:30 am

They explode if they run out of flight time.

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Pavane
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Re: Point defense

Post by Pavane » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:52 am

Enjelus wrote:They explode if they run out of flight time.

Or if there are no targets to redirect to within a certain range. I am pretty sure that I have seen Interceptors head toward an enemy missile and when another one takes the target out, it makes a turn and heads for another target. I'll verify in 15 min. or so... Yes, Interceptors redirect if they have enough fuel left.
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AdmiralFox
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Re: Point defense

Post by AdmiralFox » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:31 am

Really whenever I use PD I always have laser PD for the broadsides and interceptor launchers on my ass... but then again it's because I play human ships most of the time. Anyway, the thing is that interceptors eat missiles for breakfast at long range bar none.

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