Independent Races

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ZedF
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Independent Races

Post by ZedF » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:52 pm

But most SotS2 players are SotS1 players first. How many of them will start out their first games of SotS2 as if they were SotS1 games and fall into conquest -> evil dictator by default? Probably quite a few... and that's not even accounting for the fact that smashing and grabbing and general warmongering involves some of the prettiest and most fun parts of the game. ;)
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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Erinys
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Re: Independent Races

Post by Erinys » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:17 pm

ZedF wrote:But most SotS2 players are SotS1 players first.


We are trying not to operate on that assumption. There are a lot of new people coming to the forums daily, and a lot of people who have never heard of the first series responding to threads on other sites. I think it's best to assume that fans of the old game will be playing alongside a lot of people who never played SotS Prime, and who will have a fresh perspective on things like gameplay mechanics, victory conditions, etc..

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ZedF
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Re: Independent Races

Post by ZedF » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:59 pm

I certainly hope so! :) We shall have to wait and see how things turn out, of course.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

galacticemperorgaret
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Re: Independent Races

Post by galacticemperorgaret » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:51 am

Lol yeah it's wierd my friend HATED :cry: SotS Prime when I showed it to him years ago. But yesterday we were talking and it turns out he wants this now. Didn't even remember me showing him prime :roll:

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Erinys
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Re: Independent Races

Post by Erinys » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:40 am

People change over time. It's a good thing! Personal growth. :thumbsup:

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chessvain
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Re: Independent Races

Post by chessvain » Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:19 am

Erinys wrote:"Fluff" is a disrespectful term for the fictional background material of a game. It is a way that gamers and reviewers devalue the work that writers do in the industry, essentially by telling them that their work has no substance and no real worth. The majority of people who use this term do not believe that fictional background material adds anything to a game, nor that it is an integral part of gameplay and design.

People really should only use the word "fluff" if they do not like the background fiction for a game, and consider it a waste of time. It's a derogatory term, and should be used like other derogatory terms--like "garbage".

--Arinn

0.0 i am in shock that fluff doesn't mean what i always thought it meant. Namely a very positive fan name i had no idea it was derogatory at all. Though i should note i learned the term from wow as well and i knew that it wasn't a good place to learn polite terms.

and thinking back when I first heard that word which i will from now on refer to as THAT WORD in all caps (or not). I wondered how it came to be but then instead of asking around i just shrugged though eh cool nick name fluffy is good things it's like the contentment of having such beefy and complete backstory behind everything or so i thought.

Now that my eyes have been openned though it makes complete sense i wonder why i never reallized it before especually since i know that type of attitude exisists in some gamers.

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GammaPaladin
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Re: Independent Races

Post by GammaPaladin » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:30 am

Well, the term "fluff" originated with Pen and Paper roleplaying games, really. People started to refer to the rules and mechanics as "crunch" and the background and setting material as "fluff". And yes, this was probably started by people who considered rules more important than setting. Though to be fair, for a lot of tabletop gaming it really is since a zillion DMs homebrew the setting, but still need rules to play the game within their own original setting. And for them, the flavor elements of a supplement would be mostly wasted, except as potential inspiration.

Which is to say, that in a tabletop context, every player needs the crunch, but only a portion need the fluff.

Nowadays though, the terms are so ingrained that I don't think most people attach any positive or negative context to either term. In fact, you have a lot of people who would call themselves fluff lovers, because the fluff is the most important part of the supplements to them.

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Formid
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Re: Independent Races

Post by Formid » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:21 am

Yeah, I can say that I've been using the term without even thinking of the insulting context. Including in what would otherwise be in contradictory terms, such as "x has awesome fluff". In retrospect it IS rather insulting though, I'd just never thought about it.

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jp161
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Re: Independent Races

Post by jp161 » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:41 am

I've thought fluff to be a positive term all along... Haven't used it much but I have used it.

Shees, hope I haven't insulted anyone with it. :(

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Re: Independent Races

Post by ZedF » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:04 am

I agree with Gamma that it has lost a lot of its negative connotation over time with younger folks, but for people old enough to remember the original usage they probably still associate the negative connotation.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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Erinys
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Re: Independent Races

Post by Erinys » Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:13 pm

GammaPaladin wrote:Which is to say, that in a tabletop context, every player needs the crunch, but only a portion need the fluff.


Thank you for explaining the historical reasoning behind the use of this term. Please be aware that I find this "explanation" as teeth-grittingly offensive as the attitudes behind it and the words that stem from it. The fact that they have become entrenched does not make me love them, any more than I love other demeaning words.

Nowadays though, the terms are so ingrained that I don't think most people attach any positive or negative context to either term. In fact, you have a lot of people who would call themselves fluff lovers, because the fluff is the most important part of the supplements to them.


Forgive me if I don't really find this "It's not offensive 'cause we don't think it is anymore" argument very persuasive. The fact that a hostile, demeaning attitude has become so entrenched that people think they're doing me a solid when they say, "Wow, you're really smart for a chick", or "Wow, the fluff you write is really great" is not a big help.

I am not here to beat people up, and generally I try quite hard not to bite people's heads off. I assume that people don't know any better and that they really do not intend offense until they prove otherwise. However, if we are going to actually air this subject and discuss it detail, let me make this clear: the word "fluff" is never, ever, a complimentary or even a neutral term. Never has been, never will be, full stop, no negotiation, do not pass Go and do not collect 200 dollars.

--Arinn
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cooptimo
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Re: Independent Races

Post by cooptimo » Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:36 pm

I will start by saying, "I love the background story and setting of SOTS. I appreciate the effort and skill of the people who created it. It makes the game much more enjoyable than it would be as a simple tactical/strategic exercise."

But now that I have emoted in that way I have a more practical question. What's the density of these independent species going to be like? One in Fifty stars? One in Twenty? Can it be modded?

Nicholai Pestot
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Re: Independent Races

Post by Nicholai Pestot » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:32 pm

The writers I work with always prefer the term 'weave'.

It can be used as an exact functional replacement for 'fluff' while giving writers a nice warm fuzzing feeling about people appreciating the story threads they combine to bring richness and colour to an experience. It also has some nice connotations about being used as a connection generator that binds slightly more solid components together into a shape they couldn't achieve on their own.

Writers caring about the meaning behind words? That's just crazy talk.

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That Schmuck
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Re: Independent Races

Post by That Schmuck » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:54 pm

cooptimo wrote:I will start by saying, "I love the background story and setting of SOTS. I appreciate the effort and skill of the people who created it. It makes the game much more enjoyable than it would be as a simple tactical/strategic exercise."

But now that I have emoted in that way I have a more practical question. What's the density of these independent species going to be like? One in Fifty stars? One in Twenty? Can it be modded?

I suspect the rate of independent races will be heavily influenced by the rate of random events you set up for the game. At least, that's how it went with independent colonies in Prime.

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Hari Seldon
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Re: Independent Races

Post by Hari Seldon » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:45 pm

Making star systems different by unique anomalies and independent races? Way cooler than giving systems metal, crystal, or % bonuses :thumbsup:.

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