Modding Picture of the day...

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Talverin
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Re: Modding Picture of the day...

Post by Talverin » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:59 pm

Is the Patrol removal only going to effect AI, or does it effect player fleets as well?

The ships look amazing, and the AI improvements are quite welcome. I'm curious and a little anxious about the AI changes - I can't wait for an AI that'll give me a challenge!

... Not that I play on Very Hard or anything, normally. But I'm sure the AI changes at lower levels will still be nice.

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Modding Picture of the day...

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:12 pm

Talverin wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:59 pm
Is the Patrol removal only going to effect AI, or does it effect player fleets as well?

The ships look amazing, and the AI improvements are quite welcome. I'm curious and a little anxious about the AI changes - I can't wait for an AI that'll give me a challenge!

... Not that I play on Very Hard or anything, normally. But I'm sure the AI changes at lower levels will still be nice.
One day. One day this'll get released... /sighs.

Anyway, still testing the removal of the patrol option for the AI so while I've praised it so far, I'm also concerned its not going to work in the longrun since the AI is just simply not aggressive enough to counter their lack of defensive investment. While its got the fleets now to really press home the point that it can invade multiple systems with multiple fleets every turn, it still often doesn't actually send them on missions. They just sit there idle. This is probably another PH related thing when compared to vanilla but there should never be an idle AI fleet; it should be striking, invading or surveying (and gating) with everything. Or at the very least, when its striking or invading a system which is colonized by an opponent that it should send at the minimum 3 fleets, if not more at the same time with the same arrival time.

Its probably not as bad as I'm making it sound since, well, this is a very hard AI I'm up against but that's also kinda the point of it being on that setting. Its very worrying from a players perspective right now only due to their massive tech advantage since they'll inevitably be at the antimatter era sooner than you, their fleets though are not that much of a concern. They easily have the capability of producing multiple fleets a turn and sending them all at once to a system in order to get 3 combat rounds but sadly, that's not what they do.

Ohh well, again, that's always been the problem with the SOTS2 AI. It is extremely capable yet flawed in various ways and fixing it isn't easy.

/end rant. In direct answer to your question, Patrol is still available to players, just not the AI right now. However it may return pending further testing; I'd rather their defenses be a little weaker then them running out of admirals and essentially causing their empire to collapse in on itself. I also have not yet tested to see how Loa reacts.

EDIT: Next test round once I start it will see if the AI can use Superworlds. If so, that may convince them to field PH's LVs due to forge world bonuses. Granted Gem worlds for the AI would be a waste but... ehh.
Sword of the Stars 2 : Project Hiver Modder
Creator of the Work-In-Progress Seimei Visual Novel series.
My dream game: Combination of Sword of the Stars 2, Angels Fall First, Conquest: Frontier Wars and Warzone 2100.

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Mecron
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Re: Modding Picture of the day...

Post by Mecron » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:06 pm

Its very much a gifted child who's father died in its early teens.

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willdieh
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Re: Modding Picture of the day...

Post by willdieh » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:00 pm

I removed the Patrol mission from AI in my SOS patch... because it relies solely on supply for duration, it can last for waaaaay to long. It would require more code to re-evaluate whether the patrol is necessary each turn.

As for the fleets sitting around, in my current working/next release, I've changed the behavior of the "defense" fleets as well. Currently, they stay fixed to their assigned system. This makes sense from a defensive perspective but due to potential admiral shortages can really cripple an empire (as you noticed). I'm currently testing the defense fleets with a single possible mission of Strike and it's working okay. Very agressive. Early on though, because fleet construction can take so long, it leaves the defended system vulnerable until replacement ships can be built upon the destruction of a defense fleet. Later it's less of an issue as construction improves.

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Modding Picture of the day...

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:00 pm

Well right now, no fleets in PH have the patrol order in what they can do and there's no fleet that has patrol anywhere in their name, barring Loa. It seems to be working but once your next version is up, I'll put some of those back as a test.

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AI has been cheating with fleet size limits again, so I've redone some fleet templates and bit the bullet and made all Solforce fleets capable of 90 fleet CP instead it how I had it before which was 84 CP so in an all DN fleet, there's an even 5 DNs there including the CnC DN itself. I doubt it'll stop the occasional AI death fleet of 9 or so DNs in a single fleet but it should reduce its occurance. And it simply makes things easier for Solforce (and other factions since I'll do them as well) as with a CP of 84, a full DN fleet had 12 CP spare which wasn't enough for that 5th DN.

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I need to investigate further but I'm not sure the AI is updating their drones very often. Their top of the line ships are still fielding starting drones. Though that could easily be my fault since strafe mounts right now are an absolute mess due to missing weapons.

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I think I've nailed down how weapons blow away turrets but I want to do some more testing.

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Its either that or the AI has a vendetta against rapid fire missile launchers as a fleet of 13 CRs armed with them all got them blown off - as the screenshot shows.

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This is an early\mid game fleet battle and there's always plenty going on. As the AI uses mixed fleets in PH quite often, battles do not tend to be ships sitting in the same spot pounding one another.

I wish the AI could use Close to Combat (or whatever its called) and that players can choose what type of Close to Combat setting they want; each faction has their own but personally, I'd rather if everyone could pick everything. Ehh, maybe for SOTSHD.
Sword of the Stars 2 : Project Hiver Modder
Creator of the Work-In-Progress Seimei Visual Novel series.
My dream game: Combination of Sword of the Stars 2, Angels Fall First, Conquest: Frontier Wars and Warzone 2100.

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Modding Picture of the day...

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:04 pm

Today's 'run' focused more on weapon balance. A certain few types are performing too well and I'm trying to find ways to weaken them without the AI going "nope!" to them once again.

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The war has escalated quite a bit. Both turns the AI and myself are battling in multiple systems. Due to how this map is laid out, I'm winning on one half of the map and barely holding the line on the other.

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What adding in even a single batch (3) of Scout Battleriders do for your sensor coverage. Mileage may vary if not using PH.

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AI can even use them. Not sure what benefit it has, but why not let them?

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I'm sure multiple warcrimes were committed here; those poor colonizers that wandered into the system I was busy invading.

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I spent half of this battle trying to get that drone to GTFO of there since all of my fleets PD was pounding my own shields. A combination of a roll and flip eventually dislodged it; and it got met by a storm of laser PD to the face for its trouble.

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I still wish the AI knew the difference between strike and invasion missions. Strike fleets should be focusing on my ships instead of trying to get past them; the only time I take any real damage is when they actually do sit and fight my forces.

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As evidenced by the fact I still have my fusion-era ships on the front lines. There's so much fighting going on that I can't scrap them or pull them back since more advanced ships take time to build.

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Unfortunately this bug still exists. AI had a full fleet with battlerider carriers and sometimes they do their job; other times they sit at the spawn point and do nothing. Can't nail down the cause or the reason since I can't reproduce it on demand.
Sword of the Stars 2 : Project Hiver Modder
Creator of the Work-In-Progress Seimei Visual Novel series.
My dream game: Combination of Sword of the Stars 2, Angels Fall First, Conquest: Frontier Wars and Warzone 2100.

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Mecron
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Re: Modding Picture of the day...

Post by Mecron » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:37 pm

Welcome to the never ending nightmare of game dev ;)

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Modding Picture of the day...

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:07 am

Mecron wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:37 pm
Welcome to the never ending nightmare of game dev ;)
Which once my VN is in the production phase, I'll get to face head on. Scary times ahead indeed.

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Work for the past few days has been focused on both Solforce\Humanity and the Liirian Crusade. There's very few screenshots of the Liir for now since they are in the process of being repaired for SoS compatibility alongside being updated to be competitive against Solforce and to place in the extra features I've added since I last visited the Liir properly; things like updating their starting designs and changing the construction ship into a CR with changeable engines and command sections instead of the 'fake DN' which couldn't be updated as time went on.

One of the more major changes and this is entirely due to SoS support is that I've enhanced the Liirian Crusade's ability to field and use psionics. PH's Liir already was capable of using some of the Psi powers but now, they can use most of them. Stability testing is underway as I've already caught a few Psi-related crashes on the AI's side; mostly Psi Movement which I've temporarily disabled.

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So the way it works is that all command sections for both DNs and Cruisers come with Psi Invisibility and Psi Repair alongside inherent Psionic capacity so they can actually use their abilities. If the AI behaves, expect the Liir to be one of the toughest AI opponents you can face.

The rest of the Psi abilities have been moved to four dedicated Psionic Command sections:
Support Psionics, Combat Psionics, Defensive Psionics and Manipulative Psionics.
Each one of these sections come with a range of inbuilt psionics abilities which you don't even need to research (Its just how inbuilt Psi works in Sots2).

Support Psionics - Provides Psi Repair, Psi Invisibility, Psi Hold, Psi Reveal, Psi Inspiration, Psi Listen and Psi Block. Psi Repair and Psi Invisibility have 100% bonus effectiveness.

Combat Psionics - Provides Psi Repair, Psi Invisibility, Psi Crush, Psi TK Fist and Psi Life Drain. Psi Repair and Psi Invisibility have 100% bonus effectiveness.

Defensive Psionics - Provides Psi Repair, Psi Invisibility, Psi Mirage and Psi False Friend. Psi Repair and Psi Invisibility have 200% bonus effectiveness.

Manipulation Psionics - Provides Psi Repair, Psi Invisibility, Psi Wildfire, Psi Control, Psi PsiDrain and Psi Fear. Psi Repair and Psi Invisibility have 100% bonus effectiveness.

The picture above is the section I've assigned to them- its the absorber section's model.

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DNs have the same sections with the same ability offering though naturally they also have increased psionic capacity.

For the record, Psi Reflector and Psi Movement are still considered 'super techs' and are not available to the Liir at this juncture. I still don't know how Psi Shield works (if it all) and these changes could break the Liirian AI; I just won't know until I've had enough time to let the AI really play around with Psionics since the last thing I want is to make them crash the game constantly. Be a poor thing for my favorite faction to do. :?

The rest of the past Liirian Crusade changes are still there; for example they still hate assault shuttles and are the only faction who actually uses biological warfare on a routine basis (if they don't just simply bombard a planet from orbit) and medium turret mounts are practically non-existent for the Liirian ships.

I've also been considering adding in Liirian Disruptor and Deflector sections; I know why they aren't in the vanilla Liir's arsenal (they are limited to the Prestor Zuul) but this isn't quite the same faction anymore.
Sword of the Stars 2 : Project Hiver Modder
Creator of the Work-In-Progress Seimei Visual Novel series.
My dream game: Combination of Sword of the Stars 2, Angels Fall First, Conquest: Frontier Wars and Warzone 2100.

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Modding Picture of the day...

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:47 pm

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Work on repairing the AI so they invade instead of strike is ongoing. They are certainly using invasion instead of strike far more often now but I'm still running into the AI 'hoarding' fleets and money. This said, when the AI does actually attack, they don't stop.

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An AI ship demonstrating its ability to use Psi Repair. This is something the vanilla game can't do - SoS enabled this.

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So I've decided to delve into the .dll editing side of things. Using SoS as a base (and no, I won't be releasing my WiP versions since I'm only doing this because PH's design goals do diverge from SoS's more vanilla focus and SoS isn't exactly my work after all), I've changed the AI's tech focuses per faction as well as their weapon design preferences. As I learn (or more accurate, remember) how to code things, I'll work more on optimizing SoS for PH's sake.

I've also found and fixed (where able) a few extra bugs; for example AI section bonuses do not apply to the DN AI command section, only the cruiser version.

Trying to keep a limited set of goals in mind for the .dll editing since I want to maintain compatibility with any updates SoS has, but the primary two are changing the hard-coded values for what the various techs offer and do and changing the weapon design algorithm to be much more PH centric. I've posted my suggestions in the past and I believe most of them are doable if I invest the time.

Also did a few other minor tweaks such as drones now using brawler weapons instead of stand off (why where they set to standoff when they always fight up close and personal?), Supply and Colony ships defaulting to the Energy weapon tag (while useless for PH, this is what I'd do for vanilla anyway since supply matters there.) and changing how often the AI designs new ships.

The main benefit of this is fairly simple; I've already gotten the various factions to use different weapons compared to the base game. Examples of this is that Morrigi favor Energy weapons with the Bolt Payload (So they like things like blasters and cannon weaponry), Liir liking Energy weapons with the Beam Payload, Zuul and Solforce\Humanity having a 50\50 split between energy weapons and ballistics and so on. This solves a major hurdle that PH always had - I couldn't get the AI to use the weapons I wanted them to on a factional basis, that's now solved.

For the record, this .dll I'm working on is not going to be compatible with the base game or any other mods but PH.


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EDIT: For the SoS variant I'm working on:

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Going to keep it to myself for the next day as I test it with PH (As in the screenshot albeit using SoS fleet templates) and taking the time to get my Multiplayer-ready moved over to my main HD so I can test it with a clean SotS2 install.

However the results kinda speak for themselves, at least with PH settings. AI is doing a mix of strike and invasion missions; granted its invading with patrol and survey fleets but that's just how the SoS fleet template file works.
Sword of the Stars 2 : Project Hiver Modder
Creator of the Work-In-Progress Seimei Visual Novel series.
My dream game: Combination of Sword of the Stars 2, Angels Fall First, Conquest: Frontier Wars and Warzone 2100.

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Modding Picture of the day...

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Wed May 01, 2019 5:35 pm

Working on Inertial and Tractor weapons.

So far I'm not seeing any evidence that Inertial works. I don't see why it wouldn't but if it does have an effect even with some fairly extreme settings. (like a beam hitting 0.0005 times per second still not slowing a cruiser down.) I also can't find any info over what it actually does - as far as I know it is a slowing effect applied on hit but if that's the case, its not doing anything.

PS - For the record, Kelvinic does work. Its probably the most dangerous weapon attribute the game has as these things are insane when massed, they can shred a leviathan in seconds when enough hit at the same time - perfect for the Alpha Strike weapon setting. :googly:

Tractor beams also don't work as advertised but that's been known for a while. What I did manage to cobble together though was a pulling variant.

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This Protean got pulled in by an edited tractor beam - while it doesn't do what the SOTS1 version does (sadly.), it does throw the target off course since its yanked closer to the ship which fired the tractor beam.

Still tweaking some settings for it; right now its throwing things around like candy but, well, it's still better than the vanilla version which doesn't do anything at all.
Sword of the Stars 2 : Project Hiver Modder
Creator of the Work-In-Progress Seimei Visual Novel series.
My dream game: Combination of Sword of the Stars 2, Angels Fall First, Conquest: Frontier Wars and Warzone 2100.

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Modding Picture of the day...

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:20 am

So a lot of things have been going on in my end of things. Suffice to say, it hasn't been a fun time. Anyway.

For whatever reason, working on the Loa was what I decided to spend my spare time on today.

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Loa has been heavily nerfed from their last revision of mine - starting with four layers of permanent armor on even a cruiser was simply far too much. Their structural ratings are high enough that they don't need to be almost immune to most starting weapons.

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NPG cost has been reduced yet again; if I could change their FTL system I would but alas.

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On the economy side of things, Loa ships are few in number and their fleets are close to half the size of the other factions. They do gain some bonus income though.

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Their main weakness early on is that cubes take quite a long time to construct and that their ships can wind up being very expensive, especially when upgrades are factored in. This fits with my goal of having fewer Loa ships and fleets but with each fleet being considerably more dangerous than most other factional counterparts.

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Their other weakness is that the flexibility often found within the other factions isn't something the Loa cares about. An example of this is that their drones do not come with any 'drone missile banks' and henceforth suffer against other faction drones; however they do have larger mounts in comparison meaning they do perform better in ship assaults in most situations.

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Right now only cruisers are in a reasonable state. DNs are proving to be an annoyance to figure out as they fluctuate between either being far too weak or far too strong. Finding a balance is proving to be difficult since it isn't like I can edit the models and give them different nodes sadly.

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I also tightened the spread of the Thermal and X-ray blasters; as mentioned in a previous post, these two weapons now function like a shotgun does while the green\UV blasters retain their single shot nature but have a much better range in comparison.

I have no idea how much time I can spend working on PH and\or SoS, things are very chaotic here right now. It may settle down eventually but until then, there won't be many updates.
Sword of the Stars 2 : Project Hiver Modder
Creator of the Work-In-Progress Seimei Visual Novel series.
My dream game: Combination of Sword of the Stars 2, Angels Fall First, Conquest: Frontier Wars and Warzone 2100.

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Modding Picture of the day...

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:41 am

Loa DNs are now ready for the eventual PH release. Loa LVs need a bit more time until I'm satisfied with them; I'm splitting all factions Carrier LVs into two variants, one with drones and the other with battleriders. I'm yet to do this split for the Loa.

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NPG gates could be pushed around. I've hopefully fixed this since after I took this screenshot and did my changes, I've not seen them move.

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Loa DNs are now fully operational with all of their usual PH variants. They have LV-grade armor (since there's a limit on how much armor you can have before the game says you've actually got none) and their structural ratings compare to vanilla LVs. Mounts and turret sizes have been changed around as well where possible\practical. The main limiting factor is that until you get the flagship DN (Sector Command) is that you can have at most three DNs in a fleet; that's a lot less than the other factions. It also means that even though they are the most dangerous DNs in the game, they do have to be micro managed more than the rest since they live long enough for things like having most of their turrets blown away. Also, until they get Reflex engines, they only have an average speed tier.

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This latest version has seemingly solved the old PH problem of Loa being very good in the early game when they are not supposed to be. They simply don't have the resource they need the most anymore; time. Due to how loa's growth works (since I don't want to change it), they need to temper their aggression quite a lot if they wish to expand and\or research alongside their ships being somewhat expensive but very slow to construct.

Shouldn't be long now before I'm done with the Loa and can leave them alone.

PS. For some reason and I don't remember if this is PH-only or was in Vanilla (it has been far too long since I played vanilla Loa), there's no colony support costs for Loa. That said, slow ship production and the requirement to burn off biosphere seems to make up for this since it ties up their already limited fleet numbers.
Sword of the Stars 2 : Project Hiver Modder
Creator of the Work-In-Progress Seimei Visual Novel series.
My dream game: Combination of Sword of the Stars 2, Angels Fall First, Conquest: Frontier Wars and Warzone 2100.

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