SOTSOS v0.3.9 - speeds up UI and turns

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Mecron
Kerberos
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by Mecron » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:31 am

Spoon get over yourself please...Despite this nice mod, it is NOT helping at the moment... In fact he is making things a lil hard for us...but if you guys enjoy using the mod, any mod for that matter, that is groovy. This came up due to overlapping into bigger problems and a slightly overenthusiastic sell in the main area from unrah, and so it was time for the reality cops. I know this kind of breaks the fantasy of some of the hero modders, but c'est la vie. Modding often complicates things and this is why companies often lock off code instead of making it as accesible as possible like we do and providing as much modder support for free as we can .


So thank you for the lecture spoon but, again, more harm than good despite the fantasy in your head. If you ARE interested in reality you can ask nextek for his full tech review of the mod and IF he has time he will probably give it to you cause he is a pretty nice guy. I on the other hand AM NOT A PROGRAMMER and am merely here passing along the information from the people who actually do the work. I would be more than an ass to pretend to quote exact technical terms that I am not qualified for. The gist of my msg was fine. "Mod break MP...Break bad...remind to tell everyone clearly...so no make actual programmers work harder...UGH!"


Oh and spoon? Being a mere ass, I still feel the need to share a protip with you...don't complicate technical matters with your need to "show" people who have no idea who you are nor particularily care. Drama is not useful. Either contribute to the community in a useful way or enjoy the fine texture of the door on your way out.


PS- Your first post in a year and its just to lecture me? I am touched, spoon...deeply :P Its nice that you care...creepy...but nice!

PPS- I also doubt the fine gentleman who made this mod or the people who do use it need any drama spoon, so please...they have the info needed...they know where to ask for technical help...I think if we are saying we actually care about other people's welfare, we can let this lay, shall we?

Sorry for my part in the off topic nug!

Unrah
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by Unrah » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:42 am

Mecron wrote:This came up due to overlapping into bigger problems and a slightly overenthusiastic sell in the main area from unrah, and so it was time for the reality cops.


Well, this mod basically brought me back to SotS 2, so my intention was to point people to this mod who might have the same problem with big maps and waiting times in case they missed it. I was not talking about Multiplayer, just about SIngleplayerimprovment, and the infos on this mod also clearly state that it is not meant for mp. But no real problem there, just deinstall it when you wanna do a round of mp, and reinstall for Sp, its easy enough.
As far as the "overenthusiastic" goes, as soon as i am done with my current beta testgame, i will make a comparissiontalbe of waiting times on the regular build compared to this mod, maybe then you will share my enthusiasm.
Neither me and i am pretty sure not the author of this mod had the intention of causing harm, and i still don`t really understand where this mod causes problems for the original programmers. And if you guys would have shipped a finished game which runs smoothly, where would be no need for mods like this at all, and you would have no problems with it in the first place. I am sure in this time of processing power there is no need of waiting 30 secs between turns, especially if i see what the ai is really doing...

mspaetauf
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by mspaetauf » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:22 am

Unrah wrote:As far as the "overenthusiastic" goes, as soon as i am done with my current beta testgame, i will make a comparissiontalbe of waiting times on the regular build compared to this mod, maybe then you will share my enthusiasm.
Neither me and i am pretty sure not the author of this mod had the intention of causing harm, and i still don`t really understand where this mod causes problems for the original programmers.


see I think what Mecron wants to point out is basically in your first sentence I quoted above. If you go on and make a nice table that shows how much better the turn times of this mod are, then people will probably start to use this mod more heavily. So eventually the programmers at Kerberos will reach a point were they'd have to spend extra work hours getting to know all this code from an external source instead of focusing their time on optimizing their own code, which they already know. In other words, late in a project it is certainly NOT a good idea to change huge amounts of what you already have in favor of something new, unless it's not working at all.

cheers,

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Alehandr WS
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by Alehandr WS » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:25 am

"AI customization". What kind of customization exactly?..

anamerican
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by anamerican » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:30 pm

This is great. The game is way way smoother for me.

Thank you for your work so far and I hope you can continue to fix Mecron's game for him, for free, in future.

VoyagerI
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by VoyagerI » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:56 pm

Mecron, I wish you understood that if Kerberos survives, it will be despite of you.

I really like SotS. The game does a lot of things I like, it has made a good deal of progress since its initial release, and I want to see Kerberos do well and make more games I like (The Pit is not on that list)...but then every time I read one of your posts it makes me never want to give your company money ever again. This opinion is not uncommon outside of forums where you ban people for expressing it. Please, just stop posting and let your developers fix the game, because nothing you say makes it better.

Stone Dog
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by Stone Dog » Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:15 pm

I can't install this thing.
As soon as I run the SOTSOS installer, the install wizard says it has ended prematurely because of an error (unspecified), and I can only click the finish button.
I've of course downloaded the latest version (3.8) from the provided link and I have the 4.5 .net framework freshly installed.
I'm running windows 7 32bit, so maybe it's the goddamn UAC: for some reason I can't run SOTSOS as administrator, but this shouldn't be the issue, as my account has full admin privileges.
Any help would be appreciated, thank you.

nugarin
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by nugarin » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:09 pm

Added a big red warning into the original post about broken multiplayer and also instructions how to deal with sotsos issues without aggroing Kerberos.

P.S. Styx is gaining on Cerberus - mosey over to http://plutorocks.com and vote, vote, vote.
Last edited by nugarin on Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

nugarin
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by nugarin » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:15 pm

Mecron wrote:Spoon get over yourself please...Despite this nice mod, it is NOT helping at the moment... In fact he is making things a lil hard for us...but if you guys enjoy using the mod, any mod for that matter, that is groovy. This came up due to overlapping into bigger problems and a slightly overenthusiastic sell in the main area from unrah, and so it was time for the reality cops. I know this kind of breaks the fantasy of some of the hero modders, but c'est la vie. Modding often complicates things and this is why companies often lock off code instead of making it as accesible as possible like we do and providing as much modder support for free as we can .


So thank you for the lecture spoon but, again, more harm than good despite the fantasy in your head. If you ARE interested in reality you can ask nextek for his full tech review of the mod and IF he has time he will probably give it to you cause he is a pretty nice guy. I on the other hand AM NOT A PROGRAMMER and am merely here passing along the information from the people who actually do the work. I would be more than an ass to pretend to quote exact technical terms that I am not qualified for. The gist of my msg was fine. "Mod break MP...Break bad...remind to tell everyone clearly...so no make actual programmers work harder...UGH!"


Oh and spoon? Being a mere ass, I still feel the need to share a protip with you...don't complicate technical matters with your need to "show" people who have no idea who you are nor particularily care. Drama is not useful. Either contribute to the community in a useful way or enjoy the fine texture of the door on your way out.


PS- Your first post in a year and its just to lecture me? I am touched, spoon...deeply :P Its nice that you care...creepy...but nice!

PPS- I also doubt the fine gentleman who made this mod or the people who do use it need any drama spoon, so please...they have the info needed...they know where to ask for technical help...I think if we are saying we actually care about other people's welfare, we can let this lay, shall we?

Sorry for my part in the off topic nug!


I am very happy with all the great work you guys are doing with SOTS2. I am sorry if it caused some extra problems for the ongoing dev - updated the main post to clarify that sotsos does have side-effects and pointed would-be users to a proper venue for reporting its issues.

nugarin
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by nugarin » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:17 pm

Alehandr WS wrote:"AI customization". What kind of customization exactly?..


Nothing yet - it's "planned". Plotting to create a simultaneous player turn engine, but haven't really had time to make much inroads with it.

Lucian
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by Lucian » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:23 am

VoyagerI wrote:Mecron, I wish you understood that if Kerberos survives, it will be despite of you.

I really like SotS. The game does a lot of things I like, it has made a good deal of progress since its initial release, and I want to see Kerberos do well and make more games I like (The Pit is not on that list)...but then every time I read one of your posts it makes me never want to give your company money ever again. This opinion is not uncommon outside of forums where you ban people for expressing it. Please, just stop posting and let your developers fix the game, because nothing you say makes it better.


Amen!

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ddub
Kerberos
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by ddub » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:53 am

nugarin wrote:I am very happy with all the great work you guys are doing with SOTS2. I am sorry if it caused some extra problems for the ongoing dev - updated the main post to clarify that sotsos does have side-effects and pointed would-be users to a proper venue for reporting its issues.

I dont normally post on the modding forum, but I've decided to this once. I wanted to say a great work towards nugarin for all of his hard work with the mod as well as our appreciation for his understanding. I also wanted to also say that it is much better to report a problem in tech support first before trying to fix it yourself. An example (in this mod) is saving the AI difficulties. This was not brought to our attention until recently (a minor oversite, but a bug none the less). In the mod it is "fixed", but not in the appropriate way.
As nextek posted in:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=46745&start=15
Nextek wrote:We are always working on ways to improve the game experience, so its great to see modders alter the game for the better. Sots2 is a complex game and without intimate knowledge of the the code base mods can do a lot of damage unintentionally.

There is a fix going into the next update and I would like to warn that it may cause crashes with this mod (there is another parameter with the PlayerInfo that is "cloned" which may cause a desynced data value). I am being nice and pointing this out so that if this causes a crash, it would help that we do not waste our time trying to find a fix without realizing it was because of a mod.

VoyagerI wrote:Mecron, I wish you understood that if Kerberos survives, it will be despite of you.

I really like SotS. The game does a lot of things I like, it has made a good deal of progress since its initial release, and I want to see Kerberos do well and make more games I like (The Pit is not on that list)...but then every time I read one of your posts it makes me never want to give your company money ever again. This opinion is not uncommon outside of forums where you ban people for expressing it. Please, just stop posting and let your developers fix the game, because nothing you say makes it better.

Mecron posts so that we (the programmers here) can continue to support the game. It would be a waste of our time to respond to comments (such as this) than continue our support, as I am doing at this time. We (Kerberos) have not been paid for any updates and any funds that go towards SOTS 2 will never reach us. So we get absolutely no benefit in supporting the game, so why do we continue to do so? We continue to do so for you, the players of the game. There is no obligation, nothing forcing us to do any of this, just us and our desire to continue to provide after hours support. That is our dedication here at Kerberos for all of our games (present and future). So if you want to have a confruntation with Mecron or have rage posts (the ones at the beginning were understandable, but now there is no reason), go ahead, but keep in mind the programmers (the guys fixing and supporting the issues for free) tend to disregard the whole topic all together (meaning you may get your jollies from Mecron, but the initial writer of the topic loses any support from programmers willing to help out).

If you want to mod or if you want to use mods, that is completely fine with us, but please keep in mind that they may have issues. We do not have the time or resources to maintain mods so we kindly ask that you use mods at your own risk and keep the bugs out of the tech support. Any coder knows that the longest and hardest part about bug fixing is finding and reproducing it.
Once again I'd like to send my appreciation to nugarin for understanding this and posting the warnings in his initial post.

Thanks,
Last edited by ddub on Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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BlueTemplar
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by BlueTemplar » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:44 pm

We have not been paid for any updates and any funds that go towards SOTS 2 will never reach us.

Wait, I don't get it, aren't you being paid? Aren't at least some of you working on the next SotS2 expansion, or don't you consider it part of "SOTS2" you mention? Or do you just mean it was not in your contract to continue to support Low+EoF past a certain date?

Stone Dog
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by Stone Dog » Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:02 pm

Stone Dog wrote:I can't install this thing.
As soon as I run the SOTSOS installer, the install wizard says it has ended prematurely because of an error (unspecified), and I can only click the finish button.
I've of course downloaded the latest version (3.8) from the provided link and I have the 4.5 .net framework freshly installed.
I'm running windows 7 32bit, so maybe it's the goddamn UAC: for some reason I can't run SOTSOS as administrator, but this shouldn't be the issue, as my account has full admin privileges.
Any help would be appreciated, thank you.

Sorry for bumping myself, but as it was my first post and it was waiting for approval, it's gotten somewhat buried under later post.
Again, thanks for any help that will be offered.

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cooptimo
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by cooptimo » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:32 pm

ddub wrote:Mecron posts so that we (the programmers here) can continue to support the game. It would be a waste of our time to respond to comments (such as this) than continue our support, as I am doing at this time. We have not been paid for any updates and any funds that go towards SOTS 2 will never reach us. So we get absolutely no benefit in supporting the game, so why do we continue to do so? We continue to do so for you, the players of the game. There is no obligation, nothing forcing us to do any of this, just us and our desire to continue to provide after hours support. That is our dedication here at Kerberos for all of our games (present and future). If you are just playing this game just to find something to cause conflicts or to rage about, there is nothing forcing you to continue to play (instead try join a sport, club, or play another wonderful Paradox Published game). So if you want to have a confruntation with Mecron or have rage posts (the ones at the beginning were understandable, but now there is no reason), go ahead, but keep in mind the programmers (the guys fixing and supporting the issues for free) tend to disregard the whole topic all together (meaning you may get your jollies from Mecron, but the initial writer of the topic loses any support from programmers willing to help out).

If you want to mod or if you want to use mods, that is completely fine with us, but please keep in mind that they may have issues. We do not have the time or resources to maintain mods so we kindly ask that you use mods at your own risk and keep the bugs out of the tech support. Any coder knows that the longest and hardest part about bug fixing is finding and reproducing it.
Once again I'd like to send my appreciation to nugarin for understanding this and posting the warnings in his initial post.

Thanks,


And to add to the positives. Thanks for doing what you do. Most of us appreciate it and the community that you try to build here. Promotions, Medals and Poutine all around!


Back on track to the mod. Nugarin, when you get around to it. The feature I'm looking forward to the most is automating the trade/production slider. My own personal little bugaboo is forgetting to slide it back when I'm done building something. A trifle I know, but for some reason that along with diplomacy are my two "itches" with the game right now.

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