SOTSOS v0.3.9 - speeds up UI and turns

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Nspace
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by Nspace » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:01 pm

BlueTemplar wrote:
We have not been paid for any updates and any funds that go towards SOTS 2 will never reach us.

Wait, I don't get it, aren't you being paid? Aren't at least some of you working on the next SotS2 expansion, or don't you consider it part of "SOTS2" you mention? Or do you just mean it was not in your contract to continue to support Low+EoF past a certain date?

Publishers don't typically fund post release support for games (or possibly one or two post release patches). And if they did fund the next SotS 2 expansion, that money would go to develop the expansion, not support for the existing game. Kerberos has said numerous times that their continued patch support of SotS 2 is on their own time, after their contractual work day is done.
"Quando omni flunkus, mortati" - "When all else fails, play dead"
SotS 1 wiki: http://wiki.swordofthestars.com/sots1/Main_Page
SotS 2 wiki: http://wiki.swordofthestars.com/sots2/SotS2_Codex

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BlueTemplar
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by BlueTemplar » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:35 pm

Wow, I can't believe that, what about all those other games that are released with so many bugs they need years of patching? Do they rely on the goodwill of the programmers too?

In any case, thank you so much for your continuing support of the game!

nafensoriel
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by nafensoriel » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:56 pm

There is a small.. error in thinking here.

When a developer makes a game they are not being paid for time. They are being paid for product. Much in the same way a roofer is paid for reroofing your house. In much the same way as a roofer they are paid for completed works.. and all associated warranties to a certain period of time. A good developer will maintain their product and fix any lingering issues during this period because it increases their companies value for future products. A customers opinion literally is life and death for businesses like these.


I also suggest that both sides of this argument realize that third party mod support and player fixing can be beneficial as much as it is also a royal bloody pain in the arse of any programer assigned to finding and fixing errors. I can reference the collective works of Bethesda and its community which has been a very long case of back and forth fixing and breaking.

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Aranador
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by Aranador » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:59 pm

Ahh - the dawn of realisation lights the lands, and sheds illumination on why Mecron is always so cranky with some people.

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nightboy42
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by nightboy42 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:30 pm

Whatever Mecron says do keep working on it. You have made more headway than any of the programmers at their office thus far. And a mod should not bring any problem to the tables at Kerberos since its OUTSIDE the game. Unless Kerberos is using your mod for further development and integrating it into the core game ofcourse. So any problem they have with your mod is beyond me... Thats not how development works...

They should use your mod to better their own product. It would save them alot of time optimizing it themself since youve (the creator of the mod) already done it. But if they are doing that, they should state it. I for one LOVE this mod since most of the delays and end turn times have radically decreased and the game is somewhat playable for me right now.

And even if they dont get any money from this project they still get paid from Paradox for their other projects and contracts with them. And an expansion to this game is an extension of this game so they are really getting paid for fixing this broken thing. Otherwise we would just have an expansion on an already unstable core wich in turn they would have to fix...

But in my opinion arguing or debating with Mecron is like playing chess with a Pigeon. No matter how logical and right in the matter you are the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like its victorious. (im prob. getting banned for my opinion)
Last edited by nightboy42 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BlueTemplar
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by BlueTemplar » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Nooo, you'll make Mecron explode again! :shock:

( On Kerberos Productions Facebook : )
BlueTemplar wrote:Is it me or your forums and sots2 irc chat are down?

Paul Tarnowski wrote:Mecron finally read something on the forums that made him blow up. It took out the Kerberos building, the forum and web servers, and a nearby fire hydrant. Authorities are still searching for twelve victims, who are missing and presumed dead due to the violence of the reaction. Castewar has gotten the backup servers up and running, but the forum software is still down--most likely as a sign of respect for the victims of this terrible, even if completely unsurprising, tragedy.

CmdrQuartz
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by CmdrQuartz » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:58 pm

The problem isn't the mod itself, it's the users. People use this mod and end up experiencing trouble, probably with multiplayer since that was the start of this, and report in the official technical difficulties forum but make no mention of the fact they're using a mod. They post saves and logs with things missing that might otherwise have been there and probably ends up baffling the devs "How did this ever end up happening?"

All Mecron really wanted, most likely, was some big bold print for people to see that this mod damages multiplayer so maybe there will be less people reporting multiplayer trouble that is solely caused by this mod. When I get an error while using this mod I make sure I can recreate it without the mod to know where I should report it, sadly there are plenty of others who don't understand this kind of troubleshooting and post problems that have the devs chasing their tails when really it has nothing to do with anything they did and everything to do with changes made by mods that person had been using.

I do somewhat agree that perhaps the devs should look at implementing some of nugarin's changes on their end, but I'm sure they're focusing on other issues in different parts of the code at the moment and, obviously, not all of what nugarin changes aids all modes of play or necessarily the best way to go about "fixing" the issue, as ddub pointed out in an earlier post. We need to be thankful for the support we have, whether or not they're getting paid, because it's something not seen much of these days.

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Nspace
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by Nspace » Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:26 am

nightboy42 wrote:(im prob. getting banned for my opinion)

No, you probably won't get banned for being a jerk. But you probably will get called on it and by being such a jerk, you make it harder for the non-jerk modders to get support.

nafensoriel wrote:I also suggest that both sides of this argument realize that third party mod support and player fixing can be beneficial as much as it is also a royal bloody pain in the arse of any programer assigned to finding and fixing errors.

I would argue that player fixing can be beneficial to games that are no longer being supported (see all the fixes for MoO 3 as a prime example). But Kerberos is still supporting SotS 2, with new optimizations and AI tuning in every update. In this environment, I'm not sure if player fixing of things like SQL tables is as beneficial as opening a dialog with the Devs about those issues. There is at least one example of a player in tech support doing exactly that, where what he found seemed to actual help the devs track down an issue that then got fixed for all of us. Just my thoughts on it. :)
"Quando omni flunkus, mortati" - "When all else fails, play dead"
SotS 1 wiki: http://wiki.swordofthestars.com/sots1/Main_Page
SotS 2 wiki: http://wiki.swordofthestars.com/sots2/SotS2_Codex

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BlueTemplar
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by BlueTemplar » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:01 pm

Question : say Steam decided to update SotS2 anyway despite me specifically telling him not to, if then I tell it to "Verify integrity of game cache", will I get a clean version of SotS2 without SOTSOS?

nugarin
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by nugarin » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:13 pm

Updated for 2.0.24917.1
I do not recommend using the ManagedCache at the moment - haven't had time to sync it with the latest SOTS2 release, it's more likely to cause problems than speed stuff up right now.

nugarin
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by nugarin » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:18 pm

cooptimo wrote:Back on track to the mod. Nugarin, when you get around to it. The feature I'm looking forward to the most is automating the trade/production slider. My own personal little bugaboo is forgetting to slide it back when I'm done building something. A trifle I know, but for some reason that along with diplomacy are my two "itches" with the game right now.


Looks like a low-hanging fruit:) Don't have much energy atm so this is perfect for tomorrow coding session.

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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by nugarin » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:23 pm

Stone Dog wrote:
Stone Dog wrote:I can't install this thing.
As soon as I run the SOTSOS installer, the install wizard says it has ended prematurely because of an error (unspecified), and I can only click the finish button.
I've of course downloaded the latest version (3.8) from the provided link and I have the 4.5 .net framework freshly installed.
I'm running windows 7 32bit, so maybe it's the goddamn UAC: for some reason I can't run SOTSOS as administrator, but this shouldn't be the issue, as my account has full admin privileges.
Any help would be appreciated, thank you.

Sorry for bumping myself, but as it was my first post and it was waiting for approval, it's gotten somewhat buried under later post.
Again, thanks for any help that will be offered.


Check for errors in windows Application/Security event logs (run compmgmt.msc) and post details to the github sotsos page. Haven't tested with 32-bit windows 7 so could be issue with that for sure.

nugarin
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by nugarin » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:40 pm

drages wrote:Hey

I got a problem about this mod.

I install it and started the patcher. I select all and now it seems everything is ok and istalled "1"..

"Reloaded.
Saved.
Applied.
Installing managed patches AdvancedAdmiralManagerCode v1
Started patcher."

for example... so it means its not done?

But i dont see any different at game, like new admiral gui or very hard option at ai difficult...

And i only can see 5 options.. blue templar said he got 14.. i realy confused..

What could i do wrong?


Invalid or missing C:\Program Files (x86)\Unlimited Beer Consumption\SOTSOS\PatchDefinitions\CorePatches.xml file.

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lordfrankoo
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.9 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by lordfrankoo » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:58 pm

This is Continuing from PM
Kerb as many others are falling in Microsoft Dataset Component model trap - Easy to work and menage but bad when its not related to Server based SQLDatabases (except MSSQL compact).
When you use non server based Database you must consider some things :
1. If you don't have SSD hdd it times will go up when DB grows cause hdd times.
2. you can't run parallel (insert , update, delete ) commands in same time - because when inserting ,updating,deleting - database is locked as a whole not only inserted, updated,deleted table data:)
3 when you have in mind 2. then for any select you must wait inserting ,updating,deleting to complete (even for in memory databases it response time grows when they are heavy insert update delete query dependent )

PS. I tried this when i was trying to put all assets in one DB and believe me you can't execute select * from table when you are inserting into DB

so...


Some thoughts for how to cache SQLite DB

Code: Select all

Public Class Database
    Public Tables As DataTable = New DataTable
    Public DB As DataSet = New DataSet
    Public Sub Init_Tables()
        Dim conn = New SQLite.SQLiteConnection("")
        conn.Open()
        Tables = Nothing
        Dim Table = New DataTable
        Dim SQLCMD = New SQLite.SQLiteCommand
        SQLCMD.CommandText = "select name from sqlite_master where type='table' and name<>'sqlite_sequence'"
        SQLCMD.Connection = conn
        Dim SQLData = New SQLite.SQLiteDataAdapter(SQLCMD)
        Try
            SQLData.Fill(Table)
        Catch ex As Exception

        End Try
        Tables = Table
        conn.Close()
        loaddata()
    End Sub

    Public Sub LoadData()
        If Tables.Rows.Count > 0 Then
            Dim conn = New SQLite.SQLiteConnection("")
            conn.Open()
            For Each row In Tables.Rows
                Dim Sql = New SQLite.SQLiteDataAdapter("select * from " + row(0).value.ToString(), conn)
                Dim data = New DataTable(row(0).value.ToString())
                Try
                    Sql.Fill(data)
                Catch ex As Exception
                Finally
                    DB.Tables.Add(data)
                End Try
                data.Dispose()
            Next
            conn.Close()
        End If
    End Sub
End Class



I think It will work better if soriginal DB is used only for storing save data - load data into static db and work(add rows delete insert update)in there then after work is done save in original DB :)

this way you create non DB conected Static Data set which don't affect DB performance and can be used for loading static items as modules and so...
If you menage to add,edit ,delete rows in it, it can replace original DB file and parsing is done by SQLite AND MS dataset components so you don't need to parse everything...

at least if you refresh it regularly - it can be used in parallel with database reducing lock times - after initial load - no select , update , inserts ,delete to DB only to memory dataset :)

saving is easy so i don't need to mention how it's done ;)

PPS. tried it on some other SQlite DB-s works Fine for me

PPPS. Also look at This

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shadow wolf
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Re: SOTSOS v0.3.8 - speeds up UI and turns

Post by shadow wolf » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:32 am

Nspace wrote:There is at least one example of a player in tech support doing exactly that, where what he found seemed to actual help the devs track down an issue that then got fixed for all of us. Just my thoughts on it. :)

How are things going with this at the moment? Topic author collaborated with the developers?

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