Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release - V6

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Haplo_Patryn
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Haplo_Patryn » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:25 am

Ummm...I thought you could build a naval station even in a non planet system or with only an asteroid belt but probably I'm wrong and I built them in a planetary system, I don't remember well.

Thanks Rossinna.

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:16 pm

Haplo_Patryn wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:25 am
Ummm...I thought you could build a naval station even in a non planet system or with only an asteroid belt but probably I'm wrong and I built them in a planetary system, I don't remember well.

Thanks Rossinna.
From my ingame experience, what I said is what I think occurs. Fairly sure of it, but as always there's a chance I could be wrong.
I rarely play huge maps due to turn loading times after ending said turn convincing me to go do something else and placing stations in unused systems on smaller maps is just asking for them to get raided.

EDIT - Added a poll. If there's a V7, I'l use the results of the poll to determine what I do in regards to trade.
Sword of the Stars 2 : Project Hiver - work in progress
Sword of the Stars 2 : Vanilla AI Enhancement Mod - Alpha Version 6 now Available.
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ZedF
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by ZedF » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:45 am

Why are you using a poll for this? If this is supposed to be just an AI enhancement mod, not a complete rebalance, then you should have an opinion as to whether the AI can handle trade as it is, how you might want to change trade in order to help the AI, and what the ramifications of removing or altering it are, e.g. with respect to governments, morale, etc. Making big changes to trade might cause more problems for the AI and/or player than it fixes. Asking for opinions sounds like you don't have a clear idea of motivations or consequences, and makes the mod seem more like a rebalancing effort than an effort to fix the AI.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:37 am

Hence the poll option - leave trade as is.
Point taken though. In my opinion because I can't adjust how much the AI spends on trade stimulus, it is hurting them if they don't also make civilian stations; something they only do if their systems support more than one station slot. Unlike a player, its kind of like the AI is gambling that they'll eventually be able to use the trade system.

The save game provided earlier for example showed that - they had trade ships but due to constant war and lacking station slots, they only had single civilian station.

But, ehh.
Sword of the Stars 2 : Project Hiver - work in progress
Sword of the Stars 2 : Vanilla AI Enhancement Mod - Alpha Version 6 now Available.
Creator of the upcoming Seimei universe.

ZedF
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by ZedF » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:27 am

How much of their income per turn are they wasting on stimulus, over and above the amount they need to build 1 freighter a turn? IIRC that's the max you can build with stimulus and shouldn't be too much of a drain on most reasonable size empires, unless they are vastly overspending to get it. Maybe it's simpler just to give them a stronger difficulty modifier bonus to income to compensate?
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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Slashman
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Slashman » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:53 am

ZedF wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:27 am
How much of their income per turn are they wasting on stimulus, over and above the amount they need to build 1 freighter a turn? IIRC that's the max you can build with stimulus and shouldn't be too much of a drain on most reasonable size empires, unless they are vastly overspending to get it. Maybe it's simpler just to give them a stronger difficulty modifier bonus to income to compensate?
Ummm...no. The issue is that we have a race (Tarka) that is performing just fine (or almost too well). I don't think the solution is to just grant more income across the board. It will still leave other races far behind and presumably stomped on early in the game.

If trade ship costs/upkeep became trivial, would the AI use less stimulus? If that is the case, I would possibly look at that option.
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by ZedF » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:08 am

If the AIs are largely performing well despite whatever money they are spending on stimulus, then stimulus spending is an aesthetic issue but not a functional one, and might not really need to be changed.

I would be surprised if the reason Tarka AI seems to perform better than some others has a lot to do with trade, though. I'm not aware of any reason they would build more civilian stations than any other race.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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Slashman
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Slashman » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:27 pm

I think Tarka performance largely has to do with very straight forward FTL mechanics and sturdy default ships that don't cost excessive amounts.

Whatever the solution is, it should probably not give Tarka more advantages.
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:50 pm

Due to feedback and my own testing, this is the current revised V6 log.

Code: Select all

VERSION 6 LOG

TEMPORARY - Large Combat Threshold from 100 to 6. Seeing if it impacts turn times.

New Map - Giant Ring. This is The Heavens map without any of the central systems. Solforce Node system should be fully functional.

Factional specific bonuses to prototype costs and production time removed.
Prototypes rebalanced - All Prototypes are 25% more expensive and take 25% longer to build instead of roughly 300% regardless of faction.
Rapid Prototyping altered: Now reduces Prototype costs by 25%, essentially nullifying any extra costs of all prototyping. Not sure if it also lowers construction time as well.

Construction Ships rebalanced - all construction ships now cost 25,000 savings and have a production time of 2500. This is down considerably from their default prices.
Construction Ships now explode with proper visual force and leave DN sized engine debris. (They do not do damage when they explode, it is only visual like most other ships)

Loa Construction and Industrial capacity increased by 10%.
Loa NPG Gate cube costs lowered dramatically.
Experimental - Loa Cube costs decreased by 25%.
Experimental - Loa Cube count of upgrades (such as wave amplification) lowered to 75% instead of 80%.
Morrigi CRs 10% cheaper to construct. (This is done in the faction file and is easily removed if needed.)
Loa fleet templates are marked to be able to deploy NPG gates.
All Fleet templates have had their numbers adjusted for both min number of fleets and AI desirability.
AI should now focus on survey, colony and construction fleets while in the expansion (early game) phase.
AI no longer has a low priority on construction and colonisation fleets during war.

Experimental - AI no longer prioritizes FTL economics on the first turn and should wait a bit before researching it.
Morrigi AI should no longer want more weapon techs over other techs.
Reflective Coating - Is now a 100% permanent tech. Cost reduced to 10,000 from 12,000.
AI's desire to gain Reflective Coating increased, should be an early tech for the AI.
AI's interest in Orbital Drydocks increased.
AI's interest in Heavy Platforms increased.
AI's interest in Dreadnought Construction (tech) increased. Loa and Solforce AI's interest increased even further.
I am looking into ways to help the other factions AI, I've got some theories but I'm not sure if they really matter all that much so will keep them to myself for now while I resume my testing.
Depending on how the Loa perform in my new match, I'll take the time to make them their own set of fleet templates, though considering how the Hiver AI reacted to that last time, I'd rather not if I can help it.

One problem is that altering the costs of prototypes is not retroactive in save games; or at least it doesn't seem to be.

As for Trade, I'd need more cases to see if it is making any real difference to the AI's performance.
Something I'm going to check as soon as I'm back ingame is to check which governments the AI's currently are in Haplo's save, as I suspect this could be a major problem due to how severe the tax income often gets reduced in a new government type, Communism for example cuts tax income by 30% which is massive if there's no trade to supplement it.
Sword of the Stars 2 : Project Hiver - work in progress
Sword of the Stars 2 : Vanilla AI Enhancement Mod - Alpha Version 6 now Available.
Creator of the upcoming Seimei universe.

I_LOVE_YOU
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by I_LOVE_YOU » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:04 pm

The Zuul don't start with any Bore ships.

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:24 pm

I_LOVE_YOU wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:04 pm
The Zuul don't start with any Bore ships.
:(

Fixed for v6. I feel silly for breaking that.

You can do a quick fix on your end by adding
<Ship inclusion="REQUIRED" faction="zuul" amount="1">BORE</Ship>
into any fleet templates that are missing it.
Sword of the Stars 2 : Project Hiver - work in progress
Sword of the Stars 2 : Vanilla AI Enhancement Mod - Alpha Version 6 now Available.
Creator of the upcoming Seimei universe.

I_LOVE_YOU
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by I_LOVE_YOU » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:07 am

Thanks Rossinna.

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dantespeak
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by dantespeak » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:11 pm

Thanks for your good work, Rossinna. This mod is so awesome that I am enjoying SotS2 after many years without playing it. Greetings! ;p

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:49 am

Once I'm done with V6, I'm hoping the AI should be as competent as it can get without direct access to its coding.
V5 does have its bugs sadly, though that's why there's an Alpha tag there. Hopefully should be able to get V6 uploaded within two or three days; there has already been a massive AI performance increase with it.
Sword of the Stars 2 : Project Hiver - work in progress
Sword of the Stars 2 : Vanilla AI Enhancement Mod - Alpha Version 6 now Available.
Creator of the upcoming Seimei universe.

Haplo_Patryn
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Haplo_Patryn » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:42 am

Sounds good, thanks Rossinna :)

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