Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release - V6

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Hawawaa
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Hawawaa » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:01 am

He's a turn 50 for ya. Still expanding, and only seen a few Liir scouting fleets.

Haplo_Patryn
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Haplo_Patryn » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:27 am

Hi. I will post my savegame later.

I'm on turn 220. Tarkas are doing good, they already have DN ships but Morrigis are not doing so good. They have fleets with all PD weapons (?¿) and are not improving their weapons equipment. Suulkas are doing better, with more updates in their fleets (deflector shields, ballistic/missiles weapons, PD, etc).

Liir is playing like a peaceful nation, no wars, only expanding its Empire and colonizing other worlds until now.

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Slashman
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Slashman » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:24 pm

We might have to take into account racial personalities. Liir really don't like war. The Morrigi aren't super aggressive either (but they are expanding well in my game).
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:29 pm

I'll take a look at the save sometime tomorrow - government gave me the run around today so much more tired than usual.

Turn slowdowns shouldn't be caused by VAE but I can't exactly rule it out. As an experiment, you could go into CommonAssets and change <LargeCombatThreshold> from 100 back to 16. That's where the base game had it, I think. There's no other real reason why turn times would change drastically that I can think of.

Morrigi and PD, I suspect that's a deeper issue with the AI thinking that the rapid fire laser PD is far better than any other options. Granted, I'm not sure how they have fleets with all PD weapons since those can only be put on light mounts in the base game. Perhaps a slight decrease in the cost of prototyping for the Morrigi might help.

Racial AI personalities... I'm not sure that made it into SOTS2. I've had matches where the Morrigi went to war on turn 2 and the Zuul didn't bother attacking me the entire time.

As for Morrigi not defending their worlds, it seems I need to revisit the fleet construction priorities again. Its just hard to balance those out since the AI wants to do many things all at once and especially with the Morrigi, their ships are not cheap.
Sword of the Stars 2 : Project Hiver Modder
Creator of the Work-In-Progress Seimei Visual Novel series.
My dream game: Combination of Sword of the Stars 2, Angels Fall First, Conquest: Frontier Wars and Warzone 2100.

ScorpionJL
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by ScorpionJL » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:22 am

Hey Rossinna

If I recall from my research fleets flagged with the mission type of Survey, Construction, or Colonization are considered "Must Have" fleets. At least 1 of each fleet flagged as such will be built before any other fleets. Looking at the v5 fleet template there are the following templates
2 construction
6 survey
4 colonization
1 expermental (both colonization and construction)

So the faction will make sure one fleet from every one of these templates exists before any other fleet is built.
That means 13 fleets must exist before the combat fleets are even attempted to be built (not counting the starting combat fleets).
This may be why only scout and colony fleets are being seen.

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:19 am

That's strange since my experience has shown that they only enforce fleets if its marked as a starting fleet.
Guess the only way I'm going to figure this out is to dedicate the time towards actually doing a long match; from what has been reported, Tarkas does the best with Morrigi being the worst, and I have some suspicions about the Loa's AI.
Good thing I've got some spare time for once; amazingly I'm being left alone for more than a few hours, so I'll do a 4 faction match on Jax - its the only 'large' map I like, since I'm still working on my version of The Heavens map with the central area removed.

I forgot to ask, how is everyone feeling about the Morrigi FTL changes so far? Good, bad, not far enough?
Sword of the Stars 2 : Project Hiver Modder
Creator of the Work-In-Progress Seimei Visual Novel series.
My dream game: Combination of Sword of the Stars 2, Angels Fall First, Conquest: Frontier Wars and Warzone 2100.

Haplo_Patryn
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Haplo_Patryn » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:45 am

I forget to upload my savegame, I will do it today (turn 225 more or less).

Morrigis have a lot of scouts fleets and no combat fleets so far. I've seen only one experimental fleet with colony ships (¿?) and curiously is the only fleet with updated or improved weapons. The PD fleets I was talking about in my post above have 85% PD lasers and 15% X-rays weapons or something like that.

In this game there is no LOA and the delay between turns is very good (15-20 seconds). My last attemp included LOA and the slowdown was horrible even in the first turns (could be a hint, maybe LOA have some problems with your last update and the IA is fighting to manage them).

Seems IA have problems updating and improving their fleets equipment. I don't see better weapons in their fleets as it would be expected after 220 turns, maybe prototype costs are still very high or maybe the IA have financial problems. Tarkas for example already have DN but their weapons still could be better, nothing impressive in their ship designs.

Thanks

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:08 am

Haplo_Patryn wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:45 am
I forget to upload my savegame, I will do it today (turn 225 more or less).

Morrigis have a lot of scouts fleets and no combat fleets so far. I've seen only one experimental fleet with colony ships (¿?) and curiously is the only fleet with updated or improved weapons. The PD fleets I was talking about in my post above have 85% PD lasers and 15% X-rays weapons or something like that.

In this game there is no LOA and the delay between turns is very good (15-20 seconds). My last attemp included LOA and the slowdown was horrible even in the first turns (could be a hint, maybe LOA have some problems with your last update and the IA is fighting to manage them).

Seems IA have problems updating and improving their fleets equipment. I don't see better weapons in their fleets as it would be expected after 220 turns, maybe prototype costs are still very high or maybe the IA have financial problems. Tarkas for example already have DN but their weapons still could be better, nothing impressive in their ship designs.

Thanks
Are the Morrigi at war? If they are not, the AI will usually not prioritize combat or defense fleets.
The fleet tagged as 'experimental' is a combined colony and construction fleet, was one of my tests.

Loa is having serious problems, but they've always had issues even before VAE. I believe I can fix them, but it may require them having their own fleet templates for pretty much everything. I'll do that depending on the outcome of my test match.
As for slowdown with Loa in a match, that's been the case since EOF's launch. The game doesn't like their gate network. For PH when I get to it, one of my goals was to see if I could get them to use nodelines.

The AI updating ship designs has always been an issue, and its not one that can be solved without lowering costs of prototypes and increasing industrial capacity.
Sword of the Stars 2 : Project Hiver Modder
Creator of the Work-In-Progress Seimei Visual Novel series.
My dream game: Combination of Sword of the Stars 2, Angels Fall First, Conquest: Frontier Wars and Warzone 2100.

Haplo_Patryn
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Haplo_Patryn » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:24 am

Thanks Rossinna. Yes, Morrigi are at war against me (Sol Empire), Tarkas and independent human colonies.

One thing mod Reforged did well when I tested it some months ago, was that IA built DN ships even at turn 80-100 and had better and improved equipment in their fleets, was very surprising indeed. It's true, however, that Reforged mod eliminates the prototype costs and reduces the maintenance expenses of ships, improving revenues, etc. I understand you're modding the vanilla game without touching too much its core parts, but seems very difficult to make a good IA without eliminating some of them. I suppose it's not an easy task and very frustrating.

Haplo

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Slashman
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Slashman » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:57 am

Hmmm...

Is it possible to reduce prototyping costs to a specific percentage of the normal price for the ship rather than eliminate it entirely?

Maybe the issue is more related to the high cost of Morrigi ships. They are indeed not cheap. And I can see why the AI would not be inclined to build them as often.
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.

Haplo_Patryn
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Haplo_Patryn » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:45 pm

Find attached savegame (turn 220-230 more or less).

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:28 am

Doing a quick test run to ensure it ain't going to crash, but here is the preliminary V6 log. This is bound to change.

It'll come with an optional download (since I'm going to remove V4 from the opening post to make space for it) which alters tech bonuses to be more in line to what PH does - techs which boost industry for example always boost it by 25% and things tend to be much clearer, though I will have to take the time to change some strings to reflect the alterations.

Notable changes so far are the changes to prototyping, construction ship costs and the Loa gaining bonuses - even though it'll probably make them too powerful for a human player, the AI barely moves without doing something like this.

Code: Select all

VERSION 6 LOG

TEMPORARY - Large Combat Threshold from 100 to 6. Seeing if it impacts turn times.

New Map - Giant Ring. This is The Heavens map without any of the central systems. Solforce Node system should be fully functional.

Factional specific bonuses to prototype costs and production time removed.
Prototypes rebalanced - All Prototypes are 25% more expensive and take 25% longer to build instead of roughly 300% regardless of faction.
Rapid Prototyping altered: Now reduces Prototype costs by 25%, essentially nullifying any extra costs of all prototyping. Not sure if it also lowers construction time as well.

Construction Ships rebalanced - all construction ships now cost 25,000 savings and have a production time of 2500. This is down considerably from their default prices. (This is because the AI is bottlenecking trying to fill up construction fleets and I'd rather not revert filling up the starter construction fleet yet.)
Construction Ships now explode with proper visual force and leave DN sized engine debris. (They do not do damage when they explode, it is only visual like most other ships)

Fleets which contained 2 supply ships now only contain 1.
Alternate Construction fleet - changed so it only wants 4 Construction ships with the rest being combat. (Temporary)
Construction Fleet - AI will only field one of these fleets.
Alternate Construction fleet - AI will field more of these variants.

Loa Construction and Industrial capacity increased by 20% and 30%.
Loa NPG Gate cube costs lowered dramatically.
Experimental - Loa Cube costs halved.
Experimental - Loa Cube count of upgrades (such as wave amplification) lowered to 50% instead of 80%.
Morrigi CRs 10% cheaper to construct. (This is done in the faction file and is easily removed if needed.)
Are you doing a youtube series Haplo?
Anyway, I took a look at the save. Morrigi is getting pounded, that's why they are having so many issues. They only had one Civilian station from what I could see and no slots left to build more, contrasted by their central location within the map. This said, looking at the event log, they never tried to work on their economy to a large extent before they got attacked. They don't have the space to put both naval and civilian stations on most of their worlds due to low population and\or low planet sizes. I could lower the population requirement for stations, but I'd rather not unless told to.

Depending on the outcome of my own test match and how the AI's all go, I'm looking at halving the number of survey and colony fleets that the AI wants to build so they are more inclined to build the others. Its really hard to get them to build the right things at the right time since in reality, they need all kinds of fleets to get things done.
Sword of the Stars 2 : Project Hiver Modder
Creator of the Work-In-Progress Seimei Visual Novel series.
My dream game: Combination of Sword of the Stars 2, Angels Fall First, Conquest: Frontier Wars and Warzone 2100.

Haplo_Patryn
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Haplo_Patryn » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:32 am

Thanks Rossinna, I will check this weekend your new mod update if you upload it before.

I'm not doing a youtube series, not yet. I'm using the same savegame I used when I uploaded some videos of mod Reforged a lot of months ago, that's why the savegame has "Youtube" name. First I want to ensure that the mod is working fine and the series will be fun to watch ;)

Haplo_Patryn
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Haplo_Patryn » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:21 am

By the way, I've researched Deep Space Construction tecnology but I'm not being able to build naval stations in deep space systems. Does it work as intended or is a bug? I can only build mining stations (tech researched too).

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:41 am

Inaccurate tech description actually. It lets you build stations in systems no one else owns, but there must still be an anchor point such as a planet there. Systems with nothing but a star and\or an asteroid belt won't allow stations to be built, short of the usual mining one for the asteroid belt.

Don't remember if that was also the case in SOTS1, but it is in SOTS2.
EDIT - probably was also the case in SOTS1 since all systems had a planet if I recall.
Sword of the Stars 2 : Project Hiver Modder
Creator of the Work-In-Progress Seimei Visual Novel series.
My dream game: Combination of Sword of the Stars 2, Angels Fall First, Conquest: Frontier Wars and Warzone 2100.

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