Breakin the laws or how did they AI rebel?

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bmac4417
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Re: Breakin the laws or how did they AI rebel?

Post by bmac4417 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:51 am

:bangdesk:
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kknd2
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Re: Breakin the laws or how did they AI rebel?

Post by kknd2 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:27 am

@ macron: huh, wonder what "AI major" means right now...

@Erinys: well for home grown AI rebellion, definitly, but then you run into Via Demisco and all your hard work goes down the drain.

@aidan: Ya, Funny as it sounds, I can actually see that kind of thing happening. the problem with ideas is that once they are introduced its impossable to remove them, even if you suppress them brutally, the watchers must be watched, for to know what they seek, they must be a risk. Suddenly I have far more simpathy with MiniSci having budget overruns on AI techs...
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The Hiver says the glass is half empty.
While they argue about it, the Zuul comes along, drinks what's left, and removes all doubt. - KKND2

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Mecron
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Re: Breakin the laws or how did they AI rebel?

Post by Mecron » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:46 pm

KKND lol...it means that I was in Computer Science/Math but my specialty was AI...of course that was nearly a quarter century ago so that should be taken into account. :oops:

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kknd2
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Re: Breakin the laws or how did they AI rebel?

Post by kknd2 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:07 pm

Mecron wrote:KKND lol...it means that I was in Computer Science/Math but my specialty was AI...of course that was nearly a quarter century ago so that should be taken into account. :oops:


suppose that helps explain the AI in SotS being far above the standard, but its also one of those neat little bits of info that just happens to accmulate in my mind, up there with other random junk.

comeing back to the topic, is there some in universe way that homegrown and Via Damisco rebellions differ? diffrent policys on other species and such? just a little wrinkle of backround I wonder about.
The Liir says the glass is half full.
The Hiver says the glass is half empty.
While they argue about it, the Zuul comes along, drinks what's left, and removes all doubt. - KKND2

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Lelouch
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Re: Breakin the laws or how did they AI rebel?

Post by Lelouch » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:56 pm

Maybe it just me but i dont mind the ai rebellion much >< I prefer to purposly cause them by leaving 3 planets with all ai ships or no ships at all and then run my next ai project with it completely rushed and 70% of the time it causes a rebellion and then i clean up the rebelled planets that i didnt want to rebel >< defend my borders and let the ai rebellion go after my enemy ><
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Erinys
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Re: Breakin the laws or how did they AI rebel?

Post by Erinys » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:42 pm

kknd2 wrote:comeing back to the topic, is there some in universe way that homegrown and Via Damisco rebellions differ? diffrent policys on other species and such? just a little wrinkle of backround I wonder about.


Via Damasco is an evangelical AI rebellion.

It was deliberately designed and inflicted upon the carbon-based universe by a traitor who no longer identified with carbon-based life. :wink:

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Slasher
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Re: Breakin the laws or how did they AI rebel?

Post by Slasher » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:44 pm

A certain SolForce legate with a lot of "enhancements", locked in a wheelchair for life and a grudge against the world?
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kknd2
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Re: Breakin the laws or how did they AI rebel?

Post by kknd2 » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:55 am

Slasher wrote:A certain SolForce legate with a lot of "enhancements", locked in a wheelchair for life and a grudge against the world?


Did someone say cybrans? because I think i heard someone mention Cybrids...
The Liir says the glass is half full.
The Hiver says the glass is half empty.
While they argue about it, the Zuul comes along, drinks what's left, and removes all doubt. - KKND2

Kiith-sa
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Re: Breakin the laws or how did they AI rebel?

Post by Kiith-sa » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:34 pm

*a door opens, a Borg, a Cyborg, and a Cybirian (from Supreme Comm) come thrugh it*

CHoooooooseee :roll:
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Athlon2736
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Re: Breakin the laws or how did they AI rebel?

Post by Athlon2736 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:26 pm

Cybirian please
The meaning of victory is not ot merely to defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnent of his endeavours, to crush his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existance. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of Victory.

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The_Pastmaster
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Re: Breakin the laws or how did they AI rebel?

Post by The_Pastmaster » Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:47 am

The names are as follows:
The United Earth Federation (UEF)
The Aeon Illuminate (Aeons)
and The Cybran Nation (Cybrans)

I've played the SupCom and Forged Alliance (as Cybrans) for 250 hours (+/-) so I should know

Have a nice day :thumbsup:
I realize that pulsars are not part of the Canadian military arsenal, but I find that if you shampoo an angry beaver aggressively with "oily hair" shampoo to dry out it's fur and rub it vigorously against a balloon before flinging it at the enemy with a trebuchet, you get a similar effect.

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The Writer2
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Re: Breakin the laws or how did they AI rebel?

Post by The Writer2 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:28 am

:shock: I might have played SCom for...eight hours, tops. I got bored really fast when I realized that the single player sucked and the races were essentially carbon copies of each other, save for those super-huge units. Broad as the ocean, shallow as my mug, that game. >.>
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The_Pastmaster
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Re: Breakin the laws or how did they AI rebel?

Post by The_Pastmaster » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:40 am

And I have yet to finish the Cybran and Aeon campaigns
I realize that pulsars are not part of the Canadian military arsenal, but I find that if you shampoo an angry beaver aggressively with "oily hair" shampoo to dry out it's fur and rub it vigorously against a balloon before flinging it at the enemy with a trebuchet, you get a similar effect.

Eleahen wrote:You are a genius!

Someone said it :twisted:

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Niarro
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Re: Breakin the laws or how did they AI rebel?

Post by Niarro » Thu May 28, 2009 7:35 pm

Thought about replying to this topic for awhile now, since it brings up so many interesting topics, heh. So here we go X3

Nothing new, I guess. Obviously we've established that we're not talking about AIs with the three laws in the sots universe. So, what could go wrong with creating AI X3

Obviously quite a bit if you are programming (And let's assume you are) at /least/ a 'human level of intelligence'. A rather big thing about us and AI co-existing would be the fact that,

"The only way human beings will persist in the future is if we develop AI with a rock-solid moral obligation to keep human beings around. That moral obligation will manifest itself in seemingly irrational desires: it’s smarter and stronger than us, but it must act like it likes us, and it wants us around, and it wants to share resources with us. Resources it must have to keep going, and it must have an instinct to persist and survive or it’ll eventually stop being altogether, and there’s no fun writing stories with those kinds of characters. Not only that, but it must police itself and its peers to avoid “getting around” this core moral instinct." -- Elf Sternberg, 2008 ( Blog )

So really, you're trying to program an AI, in this case, to serve military purposes (among others) and wage war. Keep in mind that AI is really not a 'thing', it's basically another person. Although clearly not a human. So they've got completely different morals, thusly have totally different goals and think differently than us.

For a little more reading, this serves to illustrate how simple it could be for it all to go wrong, LessWrong 'Magical Categories' It has to do with programming a Friendly AI, and how having an AI that's focused on getting smiles from the humans it serves could very easily go from, "the resulting AI would appear to work correctly during its childhood, when it was weak enough that it could only generate smiles by pleasing its programmers."

To "When the AI progressed to the point of superintelligence and its own nanotechnological infrastructure, it would rip off your face, wire it into a permanent smile, and start xeroxing." (Both quoted from that article)

And just because I find it's interesting, and related (in my mind, at least) to this little discussion, this is linked to in the article: "Anthropomorphic Optimism" Basically goes into illustrating why and how AI might be so hard to predict, even if we're the ones programming it.

Morality is also strongly connected to this topic, but I can't find this one article on that XD Oh well :3 Hopefully people find this all interesting, heh.

(Also, on the note of a "solutionless problem", I think this is where an AI with some sort of emotional system would come in handy. Elf went on to say right after that quote, "Emotions are not merely tiebreakers when two equally desired alternatives are present; they are wholesale brokers of our choicemaking". They (emotions) would also be a great way of further building up the AI to do what you want, heh X3)

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Mecron
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Re: Breakin the laws or how did they AI rebel?

Post by Mecron » Thu May 28, 2009 9:45 pm

excellent stuff. niarro! thanks for posting :thumbsup:

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