The Deacon's Tale

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Muzzy
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Re: The Deacon's Tale

Post by Muzzy » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:58 pm

Cai Rui's involvement in the Deacon's mindrape takes place while the Deacon is still himself, still a Zuul. Once Cai has done his part, leaving the Deacon a wreck (which you're pretty much spot on about), Ishii shows him Hearts Love. This is where the quote comes into play. Even having been forcibly woken to empathy, he doesn't have to accept it. He was already familiar with these emotions, from having mind ripped various members of other races, and had already rejected them as weakness. I would think that being forced to feel them himself would have filled him with horror and revulsion, rather than the befuddlement that he does exhibit.
Even the self-destructive tendencies mentioned later on seem to hearken back more to Tourneau's self flagellation as a form of penance rather than self-hatred for becoming something that he despised.

He is "instantly redeemed" because he goes from being something that is incapable of love, that in fact defines itself in opposition to love, to being something that is willing to accept Heart's Love (or at least not reject it out of hand) without any chance to reexamine himself in light of what he has become. The transition from awakening to empathy and experiencing Heart's Love without lashing out violently should take... well, I'm not sure how long really, but more than a few seconds at least.
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Musesoperman
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Re: The Deacon's Tale

Post by Musesoperman » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:45 pm

I'm not so sure about that. I don't think he ever actually accepts it at all. After all, he is already PART broken by Cai/Tourneau and it may well be that the concept of love in its purest, unconditional, form was the straw that broke the camel's back. You DO have a valid point that he may have been prepped by previous mind rips but surely the last act of a powerful Liir (and keep in mind we never actually discover the true nature of Ishii ( "What are you, the voice demanded. You are not like others of your kind." etc.)) is a thing of far greater power than the force of will of a single Zuul. Another point to bear in mind is that even though Tourneau is driven to madness by what he has been made to do he is still (even if momentarilly) self aware. He expresses his grief to Cai, and also in his behaviour, even through the madness, and this implies that the same will be true for "the Deacon". In my opinion it's not a simple case of him being totally wiped and domesticated but even if I am wrong then what he can think or feel AFTER the process is largely irrelevent. He still becomes everything he disdains prior to his being affected at all and this is no redemption. The whole point of it is that he DOESN'T get a chance to think about it. He is forced. That's a far cry from the willing acceptance that you seem to envisage. Ask a proud man if he would rather die now or live with alzhiemers and he'll say "I'd rather die now thank you". Ask him again when he HAS alzhiemers and if he even understands at all the chances are that he will cling to life (I know this from personal experience) but that doesn't make his life any better. And, without getting too side-tracked by this analogy, the cruelest thing is that he will still have moments of clarity where he knows what he was and what he has become.

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aidan
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Re: The Deacon's Tale

Post by aidan » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:18 am

On the subject of Ishii and the "You are not like others of your kind", I took that as meaning the Zuul (or at least the Deacon) hadn't encountered any Black Swimmers, who are of a much different psychological make-up than civilian Liir.

And yeah, I don't see the Deacon as being "redeemed" at all. More like, as was stated before, launched in a personal hell. He both loathes what he is and is struggling to regain himself.

I don't like the Zuul, but I do pity them. These are creatures which have very little choice if any to not be evil.
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Quester
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Re: The Deacon's Tale

Post by Quester » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:53 am

I have unfortanetly misplaced my copy of Deacons Tale and was hopeing that you all can help me. I was trying to rediscover what the various races color codes were for the original 3 (or 4 if humans were assigned a color code by Sol Force) and was also wondering what color codes the Zuul and Moogri have in Sol Force Intelligence.

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Mecron
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Re: The Deacon's Tale

Post by Mecron » Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:59 am

There are all Black designation...what changes is the number assigned.

(SOrry should have clarified "the new stuff" :wink: )
Last edited by Mecron on Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nspace
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Re: The Deacon's Tale

Post by Nspace » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:51 pm

[Edit]1969 - Music from the film More and Ummagumma [/Edit]
Quester wrote:I have unfortanetly misplaced my copy of Deacons Tale and was hopeing that you all can help me. I was trying to rediscover what the various races color codes were for the original 3 (or 4 if humans were assigned a color code by Sol Force) and was also wondering what color codes the Zuul and Moogri have in Sol Force Intelligence.


I did a writeup of the SolForce designations from the Deacon's Tale in this thread. To sum up:
* Tarkas = Red
* Hiver = Yellow
* Liir = Light Blue
* SolForce = Green

Zuul and Morrigi were both Black List designations, but at the end of the book there was a suggestion to make the Zuul color Purple.
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Viper_607
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Re: The Deacon's Tale

Post by Viper_607 » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:12 pm

I am Curious about obtaining this book of fiction, and I was wondering how I could obtain it now that it's been three years since the complete collection box was released. I bought the complete collection edition on steam, but to my dismay it was not included. is Arinn still trying to have it published in stores or might the book be included in the release of sots 2 as a pdf file?

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zanzibar196
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Re: Re: The Deacon's Tale

Post by zanzibar196 » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:32 pm

Viper_607 wrote:I am Curious about obtaining this book of fiction, and I was wondering how I could obtain it now that it's been three years since the complete collection box was released. I bought the complete collection edition on steam, but to my dismay it was not included. is Arinn still trying to have it published in stores or might the book be included in the release of sots 2 as a pdf file?


Make me an offer via pm... I might be convinced to sell you my copy... :twisted:

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Torezu
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Re: The Deacon's Tale

Post by Torezu » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:41 pm

It's being re-printed soon, and you should be able to buy it. Don't listen to zanz. :lol:

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zanzibar196
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Re: Re: The Deacon's Tale

Post by zanzibar196 » Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:41 am

Torezu wrote:It's being re-printed soon, and you should be able to buy it. Don't listen to zanz. :lol:


Shhh! I was going to split the sale price of $ 500 with you 50/50... Now you ruined it. :(

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Erinys
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Re: The Deacon's Tale

Post by Erinys » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:56 am

The book should be available for purchase within six weeks at the latest. No worries! :)

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Gambit
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Re: The Deacon's Tale

Post by Gambit » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:57 pm

Erinys wrote:The book should be available for purchase within six weeks at the latest. No worries! :)


Whooo! Great. In which countries?
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Erinys
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Re: The Deacon's Tale

Post by Erinys » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:57 am

Going to do my best to make it available world-wide and in all electronic formats. :)

--Arinn
Support my independent fiction campaign on Patreon.
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“Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime.” --Hemingway

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falcongrey
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Re: The Deacon's Tale

Post by falcongrey » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:13 pm

Hi Erinys,

Just ordered it Direct from the publisher as suggested on your website. I'm looking forward to finally being able to read this story and thanks for making it available in all formats.

Hope to see a sequel for SotS 2 once you find some time!

Grey
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brisub
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Re: The Deacon's Tale

Post by brisub » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:32 pm

*Necro warning! I just didn't want to open a new topic when this already existed (bad me)*
I literally got the last copy (if you can believe the website) from http://www.Amazon.com. I'm hoping to dive into it during the weekend, but am limited (reading time takes away from SOTS time :? . Still, looks to be a good dive into an already immersive universe.

My only frustration is that it doesn't seem to explain why the Tarka ER crashed at Roswell in 1947. It's a good thing, too[edit] meaning that the Tarka didn't hear word of us early[/edit]. They never reported back and it was assumed [edit]by the Tarka[/edit]that an alien menace was here (for the scout did already report that there was no intelligent life on the world). It was quite the cover-up, actually!
:sots1: Bri

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